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March 31, 2005

Terri Schiavo Relatives Feud Over Burial

Topics: News

I just can't help but wonder what in or out of this world motivates Michael Schiavo's actions. I'm begining to believe that the man and his attorney, George Felos, as whacky as it makes me sound, are evil incarnate. I say that, well expecting to be attacked by the Michael Schiavo admirers, but I just don't know how else to describe his actions. Now we have this bizare behavior:

- Breaking News From The Guardian Unlimited(UK)
LEVITTOWN, Pa. (AP) - Terri Schiavo's ashes will be buried in an undisclosed location near Philadelphia so that her immediate family doesn't show up and turn the burial into a media spectacle, a member of the Schiavo family said Thursday.

``If Mike knew they would come in peace, he would have no problem with it,'' Scott Schiavo, Michael Schiavo's brother, said during an interview at his home.

After an autopsy, Michael Schiavo plans to have his wife's body cremated and her ashes brought to Pennsylvania, where she grew up. Scott Schiavo said the ashes would be buried in a plot left by an aunt and uncle, but the family does not plan on providing the specficic location for the burial - underscoring the bitterness of the dispute.

Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, had fought for years to prevent her feeding tube from being removed, and they opposed cremation and wanted her buried in Florida.

A spiritual adviser to Terri Schiavo's parents, Paul O'Donnell, said they plan to hold a Roman Catholic Mass without her body sometime next week. Asked about perhaps never knowing where his sister might be buried, Bobby Schindler said, ``We've already said goodbye. ... He's been doing this kind of stuff for 15 years. What would make him stop now?'

Continue reading ...

Cross posted at Hyscience

Posted by richard at March 31, 2005 7:20 PM

Articles Related to News:


Nothing about Mr. Schiavo surprises me anymore. As Bobby Schindler said, "What would make him stop now?"
What a sad, sad situation. It breaks my heart to see a family torn so.

Posted by: Foug at March 31, 2005 7:39 PM

All you had to do was listen to the press conferences by felos and then by the schindler family to know what kind of person MS, et al is. I can barely type the attorney's name nor the husbands. It sounds as if the family is reconciled to those type of decisions. I'm not sure "Feud over burial" is an appropriate title. Although they would obviously love to have Terri's body present at a funeral mass, they know where her soul is.

Posted by: LifeisPrecious at March 31, 2005 7:51 PM

Terri married michael until "death do us part"
Well, by the Grace of God--she now no longer has to be associated with him or his family.

I'm sorry that scott shitavo and his family feel threatened; Terri wouldn't want that--and her family have asked that no one threatens; that we all remember Terri as she WAS.

Her "husband" wants to cremate her and take her away from her family...He wants to scatter her ashes at an unknown location. This, the actions of a grieving, loving husband????

I didn't realize that the name shiavo is Italian for "slave" but it is so appropriate; these people are slaves to INjustice. These people are slaves to evil...for only the deepest evil could ever take a person (after death) thousands of miles from her family to scatter her ashes into the wind.

Terri was stuck with michael only until today; today she was set free from her slavery. Today, she is free of michael, his family, and the horror of his name. Today, Terri Shindler reclaimed her glory as a beautiful child of God.

Posted by: Tress at March 31, 2005 7:55 PM

"Mother of Terri Schiavo" Ms. Mary Schindler and the family feel sadness.

I'm sad.

Posted by: yanase at March 31, 2005 7:59 PM

Just when you think Michael might have a heart, you realize, he doesn't. And his family either. Have you heard some of the crap his brother has said?

Even in her daughter's death, the Schindlers are still fighting to have their daughter. My god, Michael, be a man, and let them bury their daughter. Stop being a selfish, heartless man. The Schindlers have done nothing wrong but love Terri, which is more than I can say for him.

He continues to cause pain to the Schindlers even after killing their daughter. I can truly say without reservation, Michael has no heart, and I truly feel sorry for his fiancee and his children.

Posted by: Sirena at March 31, 2005 8:10 PM

And I have to wonder, what if God forbid, one of his children dies.. how would he like it if someone wanted to cremate them and hide where they put the ashes? Why doesn't he ever put the shoe on the other foot?

Posted by: Sirena at March 31, 2005 8:12 PM

> The Schindlers have done nothing wrong but love
> Terri, which is more than I can say for him.

Don'tcha get it? That's exactly WHY he's doing this. He is SUCH a control-freak, and the more they loved her, the more "inadequate" he felt. So he has to exert "control" forever, even after death. To prove he owned/owns her, and not they. He just never got the point of life.

In fact, I think he had to kill her because he was SO jealous that Terri would interact and vocalize with them, and not him. Ya know, if she knew him to be as mean to her as he's been to her family, it's no wonder she refused to 'talk' to him too!

It must be driving him insane that he can't control all the fans Terri has now!

Posted by: Suzanne. at March 31, 2005 8:34 PM

Sanderson, have you not figured out that this is a site for those of us that support Terri and the Schindler family? Go find a pro MS site and leave the rest of us to grieve without these kind of antagonistic, immature and ridiculous remarks!

Posted by: rkndhse at March 31, 2005 8:37 PM

Remember people... don't feed the trolls. ;-)

Posted by: Sirena at March 31, 2005 8:41 PM


Did Scott Peterson have the right to choose Lacy's death? By your logic, he did. NO HUSBAND, NO PARENT, NO COURT, NO HUMAN has the right to torture another to death.

You don't get it, do you. I hope you are a perfect "Arian" person, because Terri is the first to go; there will be others and eventually, Hitler's "perfect race" will exist by judicial order; it's only taken 60 years. I am sure Adolph is thrilled to know that another disabled person; who was made in the IMAGE of GOD, has been eliminated from this earth.

Disabled = Blight on Society
Blight on Society = Unworthy
Unworthy = Subhuman
Subhuman = "Death with Dignity"
"Death with Dignity" = Genocide
Genocide = the perfect race.

Holy Father, thank you for allowing me to be a blight.

Posted by: Tress at March 31, 2005 8:44 PM

Sanderson, it's not appropriate for you to be here. If you don't like what we have to say (and it's not slander if it's not made up), please go elsewhere. This is not the place for you to defend Michael's actions.

Posted by: Sirena at March 31, 2005 8:54 PM

I can't speak right now-my mouth is hanging so wide open. I hope and pray that the Schindlers can take this to court. A media spectacle. Felos is a spectacle and he certainly knows how to work the media. Somehow he manged to convince at least part of the country that Bobby and Suzanne not being able to be with their sister at the final moments of her life was Bobbys fault because Mike was afraid it would disturb Terris peace. Disturb her peace? So instead as she drew her last breath she was surrounded by her murderer and his lawyers. That certainly is peaceful.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 31, 2005 8:56 PM

What I want to know is what we can do now. What can we do to help the Schindlers. What can we do-who do we call to demand an investigation into MS. Who do we call to help them get a trial to have their daughter buried where they want? Give me the numbers. Let us never forget Terri but there is a lot of work to do in the next few days. Cry, pray, hug your babies,go to sleep, and then onward and upward. She deserves the justice she did not get here on earth.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 31, 2005 9:06 PM

What I think needs to be done for the Schindlers, is provide legal assistance in case Michael the Monster tries to sue. If him and felos can deny the Schinler's access to their daughter after cremation, what is to stop them from suing? They have clearly demonstrated their hatred towards anybody who supports those who can't speak for themselves. I will pray for the Schindlers, that there will be an outpouring of legal and financial support for them, and that MS (Multiple Schlorosis Schiavo), Mr Fatal, and Greer never stand a chance of winning from this. Trust me folks, this will be a long, and very drawn out battle. It can get to the point of affecting our rights to free speech!

Posted by: MrCoffee at March 31, 2005 9:22 PM

What would MS sue them for? YOu do not have to answer-you are probably right. I am starting to think that after watching the news tonight that what is needed is a public relations campaign to let all these people so concerned about their freedoms and rights(as they should be) that their freedoms and rights are in jeapordy if a court can decide that an innocent person is not worthy of existing on this earth because they are disabled.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 31, 2005 9:44 PM

The Schlinder's should sue claiming Michael is mentally unstable and that the Florida law says until death do we part. Any social worker or domestic abuse counselor can see this man is very mentally ill.

I also recommend placing a restraining order against him. He just may snap and attempt to kill them. I think they have just cause to be worried although I think the same for his kids. This man is clearly not very mentally well.

Yes, this case is long from over. I will do whatever I can help to help the Schlinders. Whatever I can.

Posted by: Julie at March 31, 2005 9:59 PM

Maybe there is something we can do. It's worth at least a try. Maybe someone outside of the family, like Jeb Bush can get an injunction to keep Terri from being cremated until someone can get to the courts and petition for the family to be allowed to bury her according to Terri's faith. Like someone said above, till death do us part. Death has parted them, let her parents have her to bury her as Terri would have wanted.

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 31, 2005 10:00 PM

This comment was taken from MSNBC: -----"Scott Schiavo expressed relief that his sister-in-law’s ordeal was over, and anger at those who have attacked the Schiavo family. "This isn’t over by a long shot, We’re going to get our name right,” he said. “The world is going to know who Mike was, they’re going to know Mike wasn’t a beast.'"----- Judging from that comment on MSNBC, I am willing to bet that the Schiavos will have a "defamation" suit up their sleeves. And remember, eptomologists study cochroaches for a very good reason. Because the more they learn, the more effective means of eradication can be invented. Hint, hint....

Posted by: MrCoffee at March 31, 2005 10:06 PM

Is anyone watching the Larry King special? One of Michael's brothers was on the phone..he was so rude and arrogant I could hardly keep the television on. They had a couple of Terri's friends on, I can't think of their names. They were both very good. They both indicated that they knew the truth and want a criminal invesigation and that Michael is a liar and that they can prove it. I have to say it peaked my curiosity as to what it was they had in mind.

I hope that they get their wish and there is a criminal investigation. Couldn't the F.B.I. get involved? Just thinking.

The down side there is still a Michael brother that is yet to be heard from. It amazes me that they can't see that they bring the animosity upon themselves by their attitudes. Of course that would be barring the other facts in this case.

Posted by: imdll at March 31, 2005 10:14 PM

If there is nothing else to show who are the good guys and who are the bad in this case lets take a second and look at the two parties. On one side you have the Schindlers-described by everyone as warm and fuzzy-they want to save their daughter-they fight and fight and fight to keep her alive. They loose. There daughter is starved to death. They discover that she was possibly abused. They watch her be starved and dehydrated to death- they are not allowed in the room at the time of her death, yet they come out with a statement asking forgivness for anything they may have done.
Mike got everything he wanted- a lot of money, another woman, two children, and the death of his first wife yet all he can do is still be rotton-even in death.
To the Schindlers I say you have been a fine example of how people of faith handle thheir grief during the worst of times.
To Michael I say you may have fooled most of the world but God knows and I would not want to be you.

NOW!!!!!! Off my soap box and back to what we can do. Gov Bush you think? Worth a try-he could use some bonus points right about now-What about the district attorneys office-what if we flooded them with phone calls and faxes?

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 31, 2005 10:21 PM

Actually I believe the Schindler family should pursue a wrongful death suit at least against Michael the same way OJ was pursued regarding Nicole and Ron Coleman...then Michael would have to get up there and start talking and explaining the night of her collapse and the police would have to explain why it wasn't investigated as attempted homicide and etc...I believe since the court "sanctioned" this final part of her murder it might be challenging but I would think there could be enough to challenge regarding Feb 1990..He won't sue the Schindler's because he would have to start explaining...and there the world would come to see the holes in his stories ...nope he and his family are going to try to deal with this in the media...

Posted by: Crystal Clear at March 31, 2005 10:22 PM

Why is everyone judging Mr.Schavio???? We don't know what Terri told them when they were married. Maybe the man is trying to fulfill what his wife asked for. What does he have to gain? She probably told him that she wanted to be cremated and didn't tell her parents because she knew what their Catholic beliefs were. Maybe he feels like this is the LEAST he can do for her is to honor HER wish. The parents are the ones being selfish. They should have let her be at peace a long time ago. They are thinking about themselves. If they or anyone else believes she suffered by the starvation then what makes them or all of you not think that she has been suffering for 15 years??????????????? Don't you think Mr. Schavio is suffering too? One day he had the woman he vowed to spend the rest of his life with and then this happened. He can't gain anything by doing what he's doing. He hasn't once been in the media so that's out, then what? Since you all know so much tell me!!!!

Posted by: logical at March 31, 2005 10:23 PM

I would like to try and see Mikes family keep the media away from the funeral-that is funny-they are just trying to be mean by keeping Terris family away.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 31, 2005 10:23 PM

If he sues for defamation of character then I will personally file a lawsuit against Michael with others in a class action lawsuit for mental and emotional stress.

You have a good point. I think this is why the Schlinders have been very careful of what they have been saying lately. Come on, there is more than enough evidence that Michael has caused his own headaches and slander. He has a losing battle if he tries.

Posted by: Julie at March 31, 2005 10:26 PM

logical, If he loved his wife so much and really cared then why does he have a common law wife whom he has 2 children with and they have been together for 10 of the 15 years Terri has been disbled?

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 31, 2005 10:28 PM

Oh she has been suffering for the last 15 years but not because of why you think. You need to go and read the documents involved in this case. There is very good reason the people here feel as they do. They have not just jumped to conclusions. Their beliefs are based on facts that have not been widely reported by the media. You just need to go and read the court documents and look at one of many lists of the verifiable events that have occured over the past 15 years and make up your own mind.

Posted by: imdll at March 31, 2005 10:29 PM

Logical-wrong place and not so logical-we have all heard it before so I will give you the shorthand. Loving men do not have children with other women-that is adultery. Loving men do not keep flesh and blood from being in the room at death. Loving men do not suddenly remember after 7 years that oh yes, my wife said that if she was ever on a feeding tube she would want it removed and dehydrate to death. Loving men do not try and hide the burial site from the buried persons family. Loving men keep no record of wrongs(thus allowing them in the room and allowing them to be at the burial)Loving men always hope-always persevere. Mike gave up hope and stopped persevering after 7 years and a lot of money

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 31, 2005 10:29 PM

Prior Greer Ruling Led to Wife's Death

Terri Schiavo's death wasn't the first time a ruling by Florida Circuit Judge George Greer has cost a woman her life.

"She did not appear ... [to] be in imminent and reasonable fear of danger," Judge Greer explained, after he denied Helene McGee an order of protection against her husband in March 1998.
A few days later, Mrs. McGee's body was discovered in her Dunedin home, stabbed to death by the same man Greer said she had no need to fear.

After the murder, the Schiavo case judge explained that if he'd only known her husband had access to a weapon, he would have granted Mrs. McGee's request for protection.

When McGee applied for an injunction at the Pinellas County Courthouse a few weeks before her death, Deputy Clerk Judy Wong asked her whether she had suffered physical violence, such as hitting or kicking, in her marriage. "She said, "No, he hasn't ever hit me,' " Wong told the St. Petersberg Times.

McGee did note, however, that her husband had raped her, burned her belongings and threatened to kill her.

But that wasn't enough to persuade Judge Greer, who also failed to consider the fact that Mr. McGee had a prior history of domestic violence.

After Helene McGee's death, the court discovered that her husband was fined after pleading no contest to misdemeanor domestic battery on his fifth wife in Hernando County in 1993.

"This case apparently had a lot of the red flags which are pretty standard," Robin Hassler, director of Gov. Jeb Bush's task force on domestic violence, said at the time. "And that's disturbing."

Linda Osmundson, executive director of the Center Against Spouse Abuse in St. Petersburg, said Greer missed a lot of evidence that indicated Helene McGee was in danger.


Posted by: that woman at March 31, 2005 10:31 PM

SoCalAngel, while I wish Jeb Bush could get an injunction, if you listen to him, he's powerless. I personally think he could have done more. Randall Terry and Alan Keyes apparently prepared documents showing how he could. Yet David Boies who has been on Terri's side, claims he could not. In Florida, in my opinion the Executive Branch is NOT equal to the judicial branch.

Posted by: cw at March 31, 2005 10:31 PM

Hey that lawsuit is a really good idea-the courts are so crazy in Florida it might just work

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 31, 2005 10:31 PM


The actual court documents

If he sues the Schlinders then he also has to sue the 2 nurses, their attorney and that pastor who was with her right before she died.

I didn't know truth was deflamitory. The Schiavo family (all of them) are very mentally sick.

Posted by: Julie at March 31, 2005 10:32 PM

CW what about the district attorney? Does anyone know how that works?

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 31, 2005 10:33 PM

Someone earlier asked why Michael would be acting like this. Let me explain about domestic violence.

I have been a trial lawyer for 25 years. During that time I have had extensive experience representing victims of domestic violence. In my professional opinion, Michael's conduct throughout this ordeal, including now his demanding an apology and controlling disposition of her remains contrary to the wishes of the family - cremating her, burying her cremains in Pennsylvania, denying them a Catholic funeral (he once said Terri did not want to be buried with the worms - OK, let the Schindlers bury her in a mausoleum) - all of that demonstrates the profile of an extremely abusive spouse. He has continued to control Terri's life completely as well as controlling her family. Any professional with extensive experience in domestic violence will tell you the same thing.

Look at Michael's sworn testimony at deposition in 1999:

Q. Have you considered turning the guardianship
over to Mr. and Mrs. Schindler?
SCHIAVO: No, I have not.

Q. And why?
SCHIAVO: I think that's pretty self explanatory.

Q. I'd like to hear your answer.
SCHIAVO: Basically I don't want to do it.

Q. And why don't you want to do it?
SCHIAVO: Because they put me through pretty
much hell the last few years.

Q. And can you describe what you mean by hell?
SCHIAVO: The litigations (sic) they put me through.

Q. Any other specifics besides the litigation?
SCHIAVO: Just their attitude towards me because of the litigations (sic). There is no other reason. I'm Terri's husband and I will remain guardian.

Deposition testimony of Michael Schiavo on September 27, 1999, pp. 48-49

His own sworn statement says 'there is no other reason' except he has been angry at them. Asked the same question on Larry King Live on March 21st he refused to answer the question. How can anyone justify his treatment of Terri's family, even now after her death? I cannot conceive that they would now argue that Terri would have wanted that.

I hope that authorities will investigate his violation of his fiduciary duty to use that $700,000 for Terri's treatment and rehabilitation by failing to do that and, instead, diverting that to pro-euthanasia lawyers and doctors to support his effort to kill Terri. I hope they investigate the violations of law by holding Terri at a hospice for several years when they are restricted to holding people who, according to a treating physician's certification, are terminally ill with 6 months or less to live. I hope they will investigate why Michael was not held legally liable for her expenses which have been paid by taxpayers. Did he have health insurance? If so, did he provide coverage for his wife or his girlfriend?

Terri at least deserves answers to those questions. Her family deserves answers to those questions.

Posted by: NiceFlyer at March 31, 2005 10:34 PM

Oh and for the one who commented about the Lacy Peterson case that's comparing apples to oranges Do YOU get it????????

Posted by: logical at March 31, 2005 10:35 PM

A good place to start is here in the documents area. Another informative place is World Net Daily, an article called The Whole Terri Schiavo Story. You can find it here http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43463

Posted by: imdll at March 31, 2005 10:37 PM

Michael Schiavo is a monster and anyone that thinks otherwise is nuts. At least poor Terri is free of him once and for all. Because when he dies...he isn't going to the same place as Terri, of that I think we can all be pretty sure.
Contol freak right up to the end...classic abuser profile....even down to contolling where she is buried.

Posted by: christmasghost at March 31, 2005 10:38 PM

Michael Schiavo is a monster and anyone that thinks otherwise is nuts. At least poor Terri is free of him once and for all. Because when he dies...he isn't going to the same place as Terri, of that I think we can all be pretty sure.
Contol freak right up to the end...classic abuser profile....even down to contolling where she is buried.

Posted by: christmasghost at March 31, 2005 10:38 PM

Michael Schiavo is a monster and anyone that thinks otherwise is nuts. At least poor Terri is free of him once and for all. Because when he dies...he isn't going to the same place as Terri, of that I think we can all be pretty sure.
Contol freak right up to the end...classic abuser profile....even down to contolling where she is buried.

Posted by: christmasghost at March 31, 2005 10:38 PM

Hmmm uhhh ya.....

Posted by: imdll at March 31, 2005 10:39 PM

Is this news correct regarding the burial arrangements being made without the Schindlers being there. I thought that it was decreed that he had to give them notice as to where and when this was taking place and could not deny them that right to attend. I'm just going by previous blogs that I have read. If this is in fact true then it just shows the measure of the man and consequently we have been proved right. But then we knew this all along.
Its disgusting what he did to this family in terri's life and he's still trying to hurt them in her passing. Good rises above evil though and he will find no peace in this life. He may think his mission is accomplished but Terri's mission in life is only just starting and her name will be remembered with love and compassion. She will not be forgotten. Your actions Mr. Schiavo will haunt you for eternity

Posted by: britnick at March 31, 2005 10:39 PM

Sorry that was in answer to logical.

Posted by: imdll at March 31, 2005 10:40 PM

Alwayschooselife, you asked in one of the messages what we can do now. Remember that time moves fast. Those politicians and judges who failed Terri need to be voted OUT at the next election. One of the 58 Congresspeople who voted for the status quo (allowing Terri to be starved and dehydrated) represented what was formerly Terri's Congressional district. He is up for reelection in 2006. A truly pro-life opponent needs to be recruited to defeat him in the next election (or, to run against him in a Democratic primary). Likewise with all the other politicians and judges. They all need to be voted OUT in the next election. Time goes fast. November 2006 will be here sooner than we think.

We also need to continue to discuss this case through everyone's blogs. It should never be forgotten. Terri's memory must live on.

Posted by: cw at March 31, 2005 10:40 PM

You know, I believe your right. I remember that too. If I remember correctly Michael or Felos said that the only responsibilty Michael had to the Shindlers with regard to Terri's burial was to tell them where she is.

Posted by: imdll at March 31, 2005 10:43 PM

Nice flyer is correct. I am a domestic abuse survivor and former counselor (I will probably get back into after this). Michael is the worst kind of domestic abuser. He is the controller. They end up killing except Michael did it legally.

There are so many reasons why Michael needs to be investigated. Not only Michael but Felos and Greer. DCF had judgements waiting ruiling while Terri was dying. There needs to be a criminal investigation done by an outside group as Michael works for the sheriff.

Posted by: Julie at March 31, 2005 10:43 PM

Apparently they are going to tell them where she is AFTER the ashes are buried. They have a right to be there for the burial.

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 31, 2005 10:45 PM

Does anyone here think MS, Felos and others are involved in Scientology?

Posted by: christmasghost.com at March 31, 2005 10:47 PM

Agreed cw-thanks. I still think though in the immediate future that there is something we can do to get Mike investigated and get him stopped from his burial scheme.
In response to that I have heard at least 2 times tonight on the news that they are going to bury her in an undisclosed space in Pennslyvania and do not want her family there because they do not want a media spectacle. It is quite possible that what was meant to be said is that she is being buried in Philidelphia and the fmaily is not being allowed to go because of the media spectacle but will be told where the body will be buried-either way-it is a crock as the media will find out whether Terris real family is there or not. I am surprised Mike is having a funeral for her-wouln't that cost more money?Sorry that was mean.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 31, 2005 10:47 PM

Oh Mike works for the sheriff-well that explains the lack of district attorney attention. This is unbelievable

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 31, 2005 10:49 PM

This is horrible, just horrible. Why can't he realize that her parents deserve to bury her in a peaceful setting where they can visit her?

I almost fear for the life of his "fiance". Wonder if she knows he meets the profile of a Wife Abuser? Or will she not be able to find out before its too late?

I find it interesting that Michael isn't aware that he commited a misdemeanor when he started living with another woman in OPEN ADULTERY. And it can be grounds for divorce.

I hope the autopsy reveals the truth about her collapse. :(

Posted by: ElizabethV at March 31, 2005 10:51 PM

If Michael does not reveal Terri's resting place to her family and I hope that does not happen.
I personally think that some sort of memorial for Terri should be planned. I would gladly contribute to a Memorial Fund. A Garden would be nice, or a fountain, a place where people could reflect.
Something that embodies the qualities of Terri.
What do you think.

Posted by: britnick at March 31, 2005 10:51 PM

I look at this as the same as the autopsy. Michael thinks he can do whatever he wants when he wants. If there is a court ruiling that says they must know and he doesn't tell, he is in contempt of court.

I dunno. I have a really strange feeling he is going to be arrested soon.

I already sent money to their foundation for that purpose. I hope they do not use it for their legal bills.

Posted by: Julie at March 31, 2005 10:53 PM


Your hint is well taken. I've been trying to ask Dr. Smith or Dr. Nordin all day if they knew of any diseases which attack the nervous system (judiciary) causing it to operate autonomously from the brain (legislature) and send out irrational, self destructive signals to the muscles (executive) and what treatment would be prescribed for it. Transplant (impeachment) doesn't seem feasible to me. This must be studied.


I was married to an abuser. Bad faith was his hallmark, controlling and doing the damnedest things just to control. The list goes on, but I've been thinking; we know nothing of ms's background and family. Often there are indicators there. And how much weight does a psychological profile carry in court. Police use these profiles to catch serial killers. What do you know of this?

Posted by: mary et. al. at March 31, 2005 10:54 PM

Maybe I am just being really cynical but if the autopsy comes back showing she was PVS and that there were no signs of past physical abuse, I am not sure I will believe those findings. It just seems that to many people in Florida wanted Terri dead. And think about it, if the sutopsy shows that all our suspicions were right, well then there would be a lot of I told you so's and guilt and I don't think the congress, judges, supreme and federal courts want that. We may never really know the whole truth no matter what the autopsy shows.

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 31, 2005 10:59 PM

Has this been posted yet? Interesting to say the least
Murder charges for family in Oak Ridge starvation case [12-8-04]
6 News ^ | 12-8-04 | Danielle Banks

Posted on 03/22/2005 8:47:01 AM PST by OXENinFLA

OAK RIDGE (WATE) -- Three Oak Ridge family members were charged Wednesday afternoon in the starvation death of another family member, who lived with them.

Investigators say 35-year-old Karen Dreager weighed only 50 pounds when she died August 31st. Doctors told 6 News Monday that the autopsy report described gruesome conditions. Dreager's body was dirty and frail. Her bed pads were soaked with urine.

Dreager, who had cerebral palsy, had lived with her adopted sister, Debra McMahon, brother-in-law, Paul McMahon and their daughter, Kimberly, 18, since 1999.

Debra, Paul and Kimberly McMahon were all arrested by police Wednesday and charged with first degree murder.

The McMahons' also have a son, who's a minor. He isn't charged in this case and his name isn't being released. He lived in the house during the time of Dreager's alleged abuse.

In a press conference Wednesday, Oak Ridge Police Chief David Beams said Dreager's room was also littered with garbage and urine soaked bedding.

"There was a large amount of fly activity present including fly larvae, pupae on the floor bedding and on Miss Dreager's body," Beams said. "Within her bedroom, the officers estimated there were 50 scented candles to mask the odor that was present in the bedroom."

Beams said Dreager was receiving a check for disability benefits. The account was shared by her sister Debra McMahon but police don't know much money was going in or out of the account.

Adult Protective Services, a division of the state Department of Human Services, investigated a complaint involving Dreager's care in July 2002. Counselors investigated and closed the case a year later, saying she no longer needed their help.

From the time the case closed to the time Dreager died, no other complaints were made.

The doctor who performed her autopsy called it the worst type of neglect he's ever seen, saying Dreager was covered in feces and had horrible bedsores rotting the skin on her buttocks. Also, portions of steel wire that surgically implanted in her back to help her cerebral palsy were sticking out through large ulcers.

Each of the three McMahons is being held on a $1 million bond. An arraignment date is pending.


Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 31, 2005 11:00 PM


There was a profiling done on him and submitted to Greer.

Read more here:


He works for the law enforcement.

Posted by: Julie at March 31, 2005 11:00 PM

It looks like we have another troll: RetMaj12. Again, this is a site in support of the Schindlers, and Terri. We discuss the situation with Terri, and the rights of the disabled and those who can't speak for themselves. Trolls do not belong on this message board.

Posted by: MrCoffee at March 31, 2005 11:04 PM

The disabled do get treated like dirt. My mother is wheel chair bound due to a genetic knee disorder (which I have). People have pulled her wheel chair aside when she is in line, ran into her with carts, etc.

I saw it again on Easter. We went to a place that is for disabled people. There was a disabled women in the gift shop. The cashier said the total was $2 for her item. The disabled women gave her a $5. The cashier made this poor women pull out 2-$1. My total purchase was $1.35. I apologized saying I only had a $20.

Her response:

"I am not low in change. That is so-so. I have to help her figure out how to pay."

It is just sick.

Posted by: Julie at March 31, 2005 11:09 PM

The disabled do get treated like dirt. My mother is wheel chair bound due to a genetic knee disorder (which I have). People have pulled her wheel chair aside when she is in line, ran into her with carts, etc.

I saw it again on Easter. We went to a place that is for disabled people. There was a disabled women in the gift shop. The cashier said the total was $2 for her item. The disabled women gave her a $5. The cashier made this poor women pull out 2-$1. My total purchase was $1.35. I apologized saying I only had a $20.

Her response:

"I am not low in change. That is so-so. I have to help her figure out how to pay."

It is just sick.

Posted by: Julie at March 31, 2005 11:09 PM

I read that a bit ago. It is basically just one more nail in a hardware store full of them. Are you sure about it being submitted to Greer? I don't think that I have come across it in an official situation as a court document.

Unless this guy is part of the witness protection program, connected to the mob or blessed with diplomatic immunity somethings gotta give!

Posted by: imdll at March 31, 2005 11:17 PM

I do not understand how people can still blindly believe Michael Schiavo, a man who is so consumed with vindictiveness it's outrageous.

I mean this guy is a classic sociopath who gets a sadistic delight out of tormenting first Terri, and then her family.

He's tormenting her family even after she dies, and his supporters are in such denial they refuse to see the obvious.

As I've said, O.J. Simpson had his backers, which are all but nonexistent today. Michael Schiavo is destined for the same fate as O.J., which is as a pariah.

Posted by: Susan Nunes at March 31, 2005 11:17 PM

Thanks, Juli; Did you get my questions Mr. Coffee, Niceflyer???

Posted by: mary et. al. at March 31, 2005 11:21 PM

First of all God Bless Terri and her family

It looks to me after reading alot of things about Terri and her family who loved her very much
I just got impression of her being held hostage like a crimal for 15 years and couldnt do anything but lay there helpless and see what was going on around her
I think she heard all and knew what was going on
I think it made me sick to find out he brought his girfriend to see Terri in the hospital as she did her laundry
If terri was awake and could hear that is the lowest thing to do is flaunt a girl friend in her face as she lay there in her bed
I think the parents had a right to her funeral
This man sounds like a control freak pure and simple.
This reminds me of the old murder movies on twilight zone
First you control what ever is to be controlled
Then you become a nurse to read and have access to any medical records that might get you in some kind of trouble or hide the truth
Then get in flin with the cops or sheriffs
Make sure you get in with the coroners also beings you get to know them all being a nurse
Then u get felos who was on the board of hospice as your lawyer.Now get the judge to take campaine money and make sure he helps you kill your wife ,,
Okay I will wake up now this is only a dream or the biggest nightmare some one has had for 15 years held as a hostage and in fear
Why not let the parents permanelty take care of Terri ,loving and would do a great job with joy and love
There is one thing about a parent they know all
We as moms have censors that tell us when something is wrong and when something is not right


I sure pray that Terri some day gets the truth out if there is something to hide
I planted roses today for Terri and I will never forget her and her family

Posted by: JOJO at March 31, 2005 11:26 PM

I did read the replys, mary. Needless to say, I have to agree there is some sort of virus in our court system. Either that, or perhaps a few parasites that need to be removed. The first worms that need to be cut out are Greer and Felos.

Posted by: MrCoffee at March 31, 2005 11:27 PM

From my readings of Terri's court and other documents, particularly the concerns raised about the 'mis-management' of trust funds, and the 'improprieties' concerning her placement in the Hospice using taxpayers' funds, it seems to me that the plot against Terri revolved around money for at least two protagonists, and power and 'other agendas' for the others.

Many parties, on a local, state, and it seems, federal level, had a vested interest in her death. Perhaps one avenue that may be worth exploring (it has been successfully used on notoriously evil, hard-to-catch criminals) is a series of in-depth I.R.S. audits. Given the lax attitude toward observing both the spirit and letter of the law, I would hazard a guess that the financial reporting areas of these public folks could benefit from a little scrutiny.

My point: you may flout the law and get away with murder, but do not mess with the I.R.S. If they have no fear of God, these fine agents might be able to provide some.

The benefit: it would not cost the Schindler family neither time, money, nor further grief. Let the government seek redress in the way it knows best.

Posted by: TuGGer at March 31, 2005 11:36 PM

Okay - can I ask a question here?

I am getting so sick of hearing the "Living Will" rhetoric out of every single commentator. Their pushing of the concept that "the good thing (as if there really IS one) in all of this (Terri's dehydration & starvation death) is that now people all across America are thinking and talking about living wills".

Okay, I've known about Living Wills & Advanced Directives for many years now - but I don't have one because (I thought) I didn't need one.

You see, people who know that they don't want to be on life support - they think about and get living wills. People who think doctors are going to do their best to keep you alive, don't need a "directive".

But now I finally REALIZE, that if I WANT TO LIVE... I MUST have it specifically detailed in some type of legal document to make sure some naive statement that I probably made at any time since turning 18 doesn't get me tortured and killed.

But wait a minute... EVEN IF I specifically direct each and every doctor in charge of my care at any point in the future to take all extraordinary means available & possible to KEEP ME ALIVE - that doesn't protect me one whit either. Because "thaaaat Wish" won't hold up in court, even in writing, under oath and notarized.

So, basically - if you WANT TO LIVE no matter what, too bad, it won't be up to you.

You want to die? Noooo Problem!! We got a form for that!! (as long as you don't ask for it to be 'quick & painless')

Posted by: Raquel at March 31, 2005 11:37 PM

i cant understand how he has any say now anyway in anything that has to do with Terri and her family - he no longer is her guardian .. does it say in any court papers he has any say after her death
i agree with eveyone who says that he is classic abusive husband complete control not only with her but with her family
he wants be shown for what he really is and his true colors will show - the media will tier of his i am a loving husband image he wants to show those who cant see

Rest In Peace Terri
I Pray that we are shown the Truth

Posted by: keeka at March 31, 2005 11:44 PM

I DON'T MEAN TO SHOUT, BUT I WANTED TO GET EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION. Sorry about that, but I wonder if anyone has an e-mail address for contacting ANYONE close to the Schindler family directly? I may have cemetery info. Please e-mail me privately so you needn't post anything publicly, at LadyPriory@aol.com or ladypriory@yahoo.com Thanks!

Posted by: Salena at March 31, 2005 11:44 PM

I am waiting for the Schiavo brothers or Felos to hang themselves with their words. Each time I force myself to listen to them they say things that are nearly incriminating. Felos today talked about the "death process" being important for Michael. Bet it was. Last week it was the brothers threatening Glenn Beck over what he said on his radio show and misstating facts. On Larry King Live Michael himself said, "we don't know what Terri wants, this is what we want..."

I think if the cameras are pointed in their direction long enough something will be said that will cause others to sit up and take notice.

Let's support the Schindler family with prayer and peace, and keep contacting our congressmen and women. Some of them stuck their necks out for Terri and need thanks. Others need to be ignored in the next election. And as for the judges, we all better study up on our constitutional laws so that we can know fact from fiction and work to obtain a fairer and just balance of power.

Posted by: I hope at March 31, 2005 11:58 PM

What has happened in judge Greer's courtroom in Florida is TYPICAL of how domestic violence cases are (mis)handled.

Take a look at: www.kourtsforkids.com

Posted by: that woman at March 31, 2005 11:58 PM

just another thought the media will be searching high and low for the location of where michael will Take Terri

this is what they live for to break the story
there were some reporters who were right to life and not right to die - some were truly on Terri's side .. once again michael set him self up by having a secret location - he will trip himself to far i believe and Terri will have Justice

Blessings to All

Posted by: keeka at April 1, 2005 12:06 AM

I hope (said) "Some of them stuck their necks out for Terri and need thanks."

I almost agree; however, as the saying goes: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions".

Yes, many of our elected government officials stepped up to the brink, but failed to take the jump. 99% is/was NOT enough, even if it's heartfelt and all.


Posted by: Raquel at April 1, 2005 12:17 AM

Actually, I was thinking more of thanking Rep Dave Weldon who sponsored the bill in Florida, and Senator Rick Santorum in Washington who was quite vocal in his support of Terri.

From what I heard explained, if Jeb had not ASKED permission to rescue Terri first, he could have been successful in getting her out of the hospice. Since he asked first, Judge Greer then had a court order barring him from action, he then was prohibited to act and faced contempt charges. Somebody said, "he flinched." There might have been other ways around it (presidential pardon?) but I don't know honestly. And it is too late now to help Terri.
I had hoped he would have acted to save her first and damn the consequences. Same for the President, and the Justice Department.

I am saddened and frustrated as so many are, with the inaction of those who seemed like they had the best chances to help. DCF, for one. If they can't help a vulnerable adult, can we really trust them with children?

Posted by: I hope at April 1, 2005 12:33 AM


I read the homily someone posted here and I agree with it. Couldn't copy it for some reason, though. Given that the Father loves us because He sees the image of His beloved son, Jesus, in us, how very much He must love Terri who walked so closely in Jesus' footsteps.

I bring that up because I want to bring this up. Terri has God's ear now, she is very near and dear. And she knows all of us and all the prayers we've prayed for her. She will not be ungrateful. Ask her to pray for you and your family as you have prayed for her and her family.

Another sobering thought came to me tonight as I prayed my rosary. Jesus' passion ushered in an age of martyrs. Will His passion through Terri also usher in an age of martyrs. I think also of the February death of Sr. Lucy of Fatima, and the apparently imminent death of our good John Paul II. According to the children at Garabandel, he is our last pope.

This would indeed appear to be satan's hour, but we have been promised that just when he thinks he has won, everything will be snatched back from him. I don't know in particular what God plans and I certainly don't know the day and hour, but I really, really don't think it will ever be business as usual again.

If anyone can help me find the answer to the question I've been asking all day, I would really appreciate it.

Posted by: mary et. al. at April 1, 2005 12:36 AM

Well I do not want to get completely off track I hope but the DCF in Florida has a history of failure.
As for Rick Santorum did you hear Howard Dean suggest that he is too right wing and should go and live in Venezuela? Unreal. In my opinion-Santorums comments about how he did not care what happened to him politically for supporting Terri when he was talking to Alan Clomes the other night showed that his intentions are pure. He is the one who is going to help fight this with all of us-that much I am sure of. He is already making statements about prosectuting Whitmore.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at April 1, 2005 12:41 AM

Battered Justice for Battered Women

It is common for the public and the courts to criticize women who are victims of domestic abuse for staying in an abusive relationship and tolerating it. But what happens when women do try to end the abuse? Jessica Gonzales's story provides one horrifying answer.

In May 1999 Gonzales received a protection order from her suicidal and frightening husband, Simon Gonzales, whom she was divorcing. The order limited his access to the home and the children. On June 22 the three girls disappeared near their house. But when Jessica Gonzales called the Castle Rock, Colo., police department, she received no assistance. Over a period of eight hours, the police refused to take action, repeatedly telling her that there was nothing they could do and that she should call back later -- even after she had located her husband and daughters by cell phone. The three young girls, ages 7, 9 and 10, were not to survive the night. At 3 a.m. on June 23, Simon Gonzales arrived at the police station in his truck, opened fire and was killed by return fire. The bodies of Leslie, Katheryn and Rebecca were found in the back of his truck.

Next week the U.S. Supreme Court will hear the case of Town of Castle Rock, Colorado v. Jessica Gonzales, which stems from Gonzales's lawsuit against the police. The question before the court is whether the constitutional guarantee of procedural due process was violated by the police department's dismissal of the protection order, in clear violation of the state statute, which required them to use "every reasonable means" to enforce it. If procedural due process -- required by the 14th Amendment -- means anything, then it must be found that it was violated here, and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit has so ruled.

The doctrine of procedural due process derives from the principle that when a state chooses to establish a benefit or right for citizens, it may not deny such benefits in an arbitrary or unfair way. In this case, the state established a benefit of mandated police enforcement of protection orders. Aware that police discretion too often fails, the Colorado legislation required the police to make arrests or otherwise to enforce domestic violence restraining orders of the sort issued to Jessica Gonzales. Police discretion was limited to determining whether a violation of an order had occurred. Yet in this case the police did nothing; they simply ignored the complaint, a clear example of "arbitrary" conduct.

This type of police behavior has to be understood in its historical and legal context. Early English common law and some U.S. courts once endorsed the right of men to beat their wives and children, on the grounds that the man was head of the household. By the mid-19th century, most states had abandoned such legal doctrines, but the courts and police continued to refuse to protect victims of violence in the family in the name of so-called family privacy. In the past few decades, while many police departments have implemented better procedures, too many have continued to be indifferent and sometimes even hostile to women's calls for help. Thus many states such as Colorado have tried to force change by requiring police responses to victims of abuse, particularly where a protection order has been violated.

The Castle Rock police department and its defenders, such as the National League of Cities, the National Sheriffs' Association and others, are arguing that the police could not have predicted the terrible outcome of what appeared at the time to be a mere "domestic dispute." But it was not the police department's job to make predictions. As in 19 other states and the District of Columbia, Colorado's mandatory-arrest statute was adopted to end precisely this type of speculative decision making by police. Indeed, the Castle Rock police department's dismissive attitude not only defied the law, it flouted standard practices for domestic violence cases. Four police associations and the police-led Americans for Effective Law Enforcement have signed on to a brief opposing the Castle Rock police department, and the International Association of Chiefs of Police has refused to support the town's position.

Castle Rock and, shamefully, the Bush administration argue that to uphold the 10th Circuit's finding of a constitutional violation would be to inappropriately insert the federal courts into state matters. But here the state has done everything it could to ensure police action: Both the legislature and courts have spoken emphatically to require police protection in domestic violence cases. A negative decision from the high court, far from respecting the state's policy, would undercut it and would give police everywhere a green light to ignore state mandates requiring enforcement. Such a decision would encourage police to do less than they do now, drastically weakening the effectiveness of protection orders, which are a crucial legal means of protecting battered women and children.

In fact, the history of profound gender inequality in the government's treatment of wife-beating makes the problem one of core constitutional concern. No less than police brutality, this kind of passive misconduct implicates fundamental civil rights.

By JOAN MEIER, The Washington Post

Posted by: that woman at April 1, 2005 3:14 AM

Wonder if the coroner is going to be upfront and honest in terris case or just get a big pay off to do what the rest of the surrounding rats are doing to such a big cover up
And how did michael have so much power and what does he know to get all the corruption to go on this long ?

Posted by: JOJO at April 1, 2005 4:15 AM

Presumably Terri said to Michael "No Tubes for Me" I suppose she also said "Oh and by the way Michael after you've starved me to death I also want you to dispose of my body without my loving family being there and please please don't tell them where I am buried.
This is the biggest Crock of Crap. Michael you are not a man. When you are making these decisions look into the eyes of your children, what do you see, unconditional love, and what do you feel. YOU HAVE TAKEN THAT AWAY FROM THE SCHINDLERS. You are the Devil reincarnate.

Posted by: britnick at April 1, 2005 7:15 AM

I'm just watching CNN and Jodi's brother and his wife are being interviewed. Apparently Jodi's brothers wife was a caregiver to Terri in 1991. Has he known Jodi for longer than he is telling us.
Coincidence or what.

Posted by: britnick at April 1, 2005 7:31 AM

Raquel, and to all people who WANT TO LIVE as you indicated: You should fill out a WILL TO LIVE (different from a living will!) form for your particular state. My example is here: http://anniebanno.blogspot.com/2005/03/living-wills-and-wills-to-live-are.html , with links to the website giving you each state's different legal forms. You find your state, select copy and paste out of the PDF file into a word document, make the formatting and editing changes (see mine for examples), and get it notarized then give copies to all your doctors, the hospital you usually use, your priest or minister, and family members or whoever you've chosen to be your healtchare power of attorney (for that last one, you probably need an attorney to draw up, a legal one of those)

Posted by: Annie B. at April 1, 2005 10:23 AM

Have any of you seen this ebay auction?



Domain Name - Terri Schiavo Fund - TerriSchiavoFund.com

A great domain that could be used to raise funds for Terri Schiavo and her cause. This domain can be used for "Right to Live" or "Right to Die" supporters. This site can also be used to promote knowledge of Living Wills.

This domain is registered at GoDaddy.com. Winning bidder must register there (for free), and domain will be transferred to you immediately upon verification of funds.

Please email me with any questions. I am open to alternate secure payment methods at the expense of the buyer.


The bid is currently up to $40.00 and the auction ends in 3 days.

I am very disturbed that 1. someone is profiting from Terri's name and death 2. the possibility of it being used as a "right to die" site.

Posted by: Love at April 1, 2005 12:12 PM

i think that is scary if the it becomes in the wrong hands

i also think that they can not sell something with Terri's likeness with out the permission to use it .. some one who knows the family should contact Mr Gibbs or another of their attorneys

i know in advertising you can not use any photos with out the permission of the photographers and the person in the image / and also her name
it is an infringment right

Posted by: keeka at April 1, 2005 12:50 PM

Just a thought...

Has anyone considered that the reason why he will not disclose the location is because he isn't really going to bury her? Being as hateful as he is, he could be planning on taking her ashes and throwing them in a dumpster somewhere.

I wouldn't put it past him.

Posted by: JIHC at April 1, 2005 2:16 PM

The parents already sold the personal details of everyone that has donated to their foundation to be used for commercial exploitation. Not really considerate either.

I have mixed feelings about the authorized sale of Terri's hospice videos. I know they need(ed) donations, but selling the videos like that seems rather macabre to me personally.
Buttons, stickers, etc seem more appropriate.

The best way to deal with the auction is to really inform news agencies about it en masse. Once the general public hears about it, the sale will be tainted as exploitation of a tragedy and the domain will loose most of its value. Failing that, you could always try to contact ebay and get the auction pulled, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

I came across a link to a rather crude blogging site "by Terri". Besides the utter insensitive content, all the comments are just disgusting, perverted and sick.
I mailed Blogger.com, then received a reply about how the content of blogs hosted by them is not their liability etc etc.
So much for Google's "do no evil" slogan.

Posted by: Vanessa at April 1, 2005 2:26 PM


I bet Terri ALSO said "go ahead and have sex with another woman while I lie in a nursing home or a hospice with the shades pulled down and no pictures or music allowed, I don't mind".

I'm the age that Terri was when she collapsed - and you can bet I don't even know what PVS is.......do you think Terri also said specifically "If I'm ever PVS, pull the tube & cremate me?"

I wonder if Schiavo is a christian scientist.........

Posted by: ElizabethV at April 2, 2005 8:46 AM

Does anyone know that the coroners are all close to the police dept and can be swayed by many cases
I wish they would of got michael boden to do this
The public can get the records but not any thing that was video taped or filmed
In 2006 that law will not be in effect so the public has access to them and lawyers have access if court ordered
I wonder how much greer will pay the lawyers off with or felos
I pray the coroner does the right thing
I also wonder if the fluid would still be on the brain beings they starved poor terri to death
I would of asked for some one else there to observe to make sure it was legal and proper
I think there should be a Terris law for abused women so they dont have to wait untill its to late beings the police dont seem to care much its not a top prority and should be
I remember reading a case where the police watch a abused husband stab his wife while she had her child with her and did nothing
I sure hope some day it all changes and it is a top prority
As far as Ebay they should pull it off and do something about it
Its the sick that put stuff on ebay to make a buck or two
Some one should sue for religious rights as Terri also got violated and could not be with her family
I was wondering if more have signed that petition to get rid of judge greer for good ??
It has plenty of signatures but needs more

Posted by: JOJO at April 2, 2005 2:17 PM

KING: So various types of rehab were conducted?

SCHIAVO: Right. When I got -- when I brought her back from California, I put her in a rehab called meddaplaques in Bradenton, Florida. They deal with only head injury, spine injury patients. They worked estentionally (ph) -- they had physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, recreational therapy. They worked extensively with Terri.

why did she go for head injury and spinal injurys if she was pvc hmm ,,, he makes his own bed every time he speaks

Posted by: JOJO at April 2, 2005 2:35 PM