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March 28, 2005

Felos Suggests that Michael Schiavo Wants an Autopsy

Topics: News

Felos [Michael's lawyer] also said the chief medical examiner for Pinellas County, Dr. John Thogmartin, had agreed to perform an autopsy on Schiavo. He said that her husband wants proof of the extent of her brain damage. - MSNBC

According to the MSNBC article, it looks like an autopsy will be performed (good news if it is independent). Regarding the rationale reported above, doesn't it seem more appropriate to determine the extent of Terri's brain damage before she is starved to death?

UPDATE:

Similar to those commenting on this and other posts, I have questions regarding the planned autopsy. If Terri does die, what is the scope of the investigation? Will an appropriate postmortem examination be conducted to determine both the immediate cause of death and the proximate cause of death, including the search for any injuries from the past consistent with a potential crime?

The information I've read suggests that the autopsy was requested to "prove" Terri's brain damage is extensive. As noted by others, this seems outrageous given that the appropriate tests (which are most effective on the living) have not been performed on Terri. PET scans are of no value post mortem while MRIs apparently have limited benefit. Why not perform tests when they can produce the highest level of certainty and when their results can be used to the greatest benefit?

UPDATE 2:

Reuters reports that the purpose of the planned autopsy is to address critics who claim a hidden motive behind Michael's plan to cremate his wife.

A reporter asked Felos if there would be a "full body scan for her supposed broken bones."

Felos replied, laughing: "You're watching too much CSI. I don't know what procedures they use for their autopsies." - WorldNetDaily

One of the key allegations that critics raise is related to a prior bone scan [more here and here] that revealed Terri suffered injuries consistent with a "history of trauma". Felos has said the purpose of the planned autopsy is to silence allegations that Michael is attempting to conceal evidence and yet he dodges the most obvious of questions about the most common allegation.

Posted by tim at March 28, 2005 7:26 PM


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» Autopsy ordered for Terri Schiavo from Good Richard's Almanac
Miss Malkin has brought to our attention that an autopsy has been ordered for Terri Schiavo. According to Mr. Schiavo's attorney, George Felos... Regarding Michael Schiavo's motives on her being cremated, Michael Schiavo has requested an autopsy. He be... [Read More]

Tracked on March 29, 2005 12:37 AM

» Autopsy ordered for Terri Schiavo from Good Richard's Almanac
Miss Malkin has brought to our attention that an autopsy has been ordered for Terri Schiavo. According to Mr. Schiavo's attorney, George Felos... Regarding Michael Schiavo's motives on her being cremated, Michael Schiavo has requested an autopsy. He be... [Read More]

Tracked on March 29, 2005 12:50 AM

» Terri Schiavo blog roundup from JackLewis.net
Congress: Captain's Quarters Governor: Outside the Beltway Courts: The Wide Awake, Cait's Oz Blog Media: Michelle Malkin, The Wide Awake,... [Read More]

Tracked on March 29, 2005 8:34 AM

» Felos: Fool, Fanatic or Fiend? from Sierra Faith
James Taranto's Opinion Journal Best of the Web today suggests perhaps a mix of all three. And this guy has never lost any court case involving Terri's life. Wonderful, just wonderful. [Read More]

Tracked on March 29, 2005 10:49 AM

» Terri Given Morphine and Autopsy Requested...But Why? from Curiouser & Curiouser
I have read numerous explanations for the Morphine that has been given to Terri Schiavo, from she is receiving it for her pain (I thought she was in a PVS and felt no pain?), to it is a normal thing that is given to "patients in her situation" to high ... [Read More]

Tracked on March 29, 2005 11:41 AM

Comments

Keep praying. Keep calling. Keep faxing. This is not over until Terri takes her last breath.

Then the next fight starts:
1. Getting the unjust judges and lawmakers out of office. (I'm not sure yet whether or not this includes Jeb. But the Pinellas County judges must go, as well as a lot of the Florida state legislature and the Congress.)
2. Cleaning house in Pinellas County, Florida.
3. Making sure that no one else ever dies this way again.

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 28, 2005 7:46 PM

There's a skunk here. Can't you smell it. This ME stinks.

Posted by: mary et. al. at March 28, 2005 7:58 PM

It might well be that no new evidence could be adduced at this late date by an autopsy, when it comes to the neck compression injury and the other suspicious findings of the original examination. Perhaps Michael knows this. But shouldn't we now ask why- if Michael wants to confirm the extent of Terri's brain damage- he didn't agree to a CAT scan before the feeding tube was removed?

Posted by: Bob Waters at March 28, 2005 8:05 PM

Starvation and dehydration shrinks the brain, so it will look like she was worse off than she was.

Posted by: MaxedOutMama at March 28, 2005 8:10 PM

I was rather more suspicious to what Micheal was doing more on Terri, than what he is actually doing for the best interests for Terri. Cremate her right away? That does not bode well with me, unless if Micheal has something to "hide" and now he wants to do this autospy? What is the sudden change of mind for? He was so possessive of her Body ever since the day they Married. He wants her buried in Pennsylavia and does not her Parents to even visit his Family Plot where she would be buried. This is a Classic Abuser, that is what Abuser would do and a Murderer, is to cover up the Crime.

Posted by: momforGod at March 28, 2005 8:20 PM

A Classic Abuser would "own" this person, in everything she does, even her property, her body, and that is what "Controlling" does. They just won't let go until they are assured they had "Control" of this Person. That is what Micheal is doing is to Control Terri to the very Last Breath and still Control her to the Grave Spot and won't allow her Parents to have this "Control". I heard there was no Morphine Drop then when she spoke, all of a Sudden, they introduced Morphine Drop to prevent her from Talking. Does that make it suspicious? I really think she Spoke, but not to her Husband, but only to her Comforters. That is why she only responds to the one that gives Comfort. You know what happens when you beat a Dog, it cowders down, that is what Terri is doing, cowdering down and not speaking in front of her Husband in fear that she would be Killed faster. Taht is why she hangs on so long in Hopes she would be saved. 11 Days is telling me something that she has the determination to Live.

Posted by: momforGod at March 28, 2005 8:27 PM

I am glad to see others think the same way I do. Something is fishy about MS all of a sudden ordering an autopsy. I posted my thoughts about it on my blog earlier. Felos mentioned that they had already met with Thogmartin the medical examiner. Was it to discuss $, to be reassured nothing from back when Terri firt got ill would show up, or to say that things that might show up can be explained away?

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 28, 2005 8:34 PM

I just had another thought. The Schindlers should request that a doctor they appoint, sit in on the autopsy. If MS has nothing to hide why not allow it....

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 28, 2005 8:36 PM

Some one would say the Word "Sinister" Snake, and when I see Micheal's Face, that is exactly what I saw when he was in Court, his eyes looked very Sinister. If Terri had this Eating Disorder, why didn't she get Help? Why are we not helping her by beating her Eating Disorder, and he wants to kill her off,not giving her a Chance to reform? To change? 15 yrs is a long time to change one's mind. I assure you, we all change our minds in 15 years' time. My Partner had a Stroke 10 yrs ago, and he is better now, with Exercise and Therapy. If Terri had a stroke due to Eating Disorder, she can come back to Life with rehabiliation. This is not a Coma State, and she is not on Ventilator, she is breathing on her own and you can see her eyes moving back and forth, tells me she is not in PVS, but just unable to talk and did not recieve Therapy and Rehabiliation. One Question I ask you: Why did Micheal deny her Therapy and Rehabilation in 15 yrs knowing that her wishes are not to be put like this way? Does not make sense to me at all. Some one said that Micheal is not looking for Life Insurance Money and not seeking. Then why the need to approve Autospy? Life Insurance requires Autospy and a Death Certificate. If you look at the Rules of Life Insurance, it has to be in Natural Causes, not Murder in order to approve Life Insurance Money to Micheal. You see the picture now? That is why Micheal is approving the Autospy so the Life Insurance can release the money to him. Or he is just trying to avoid the Label "Murderer"?

Posted by: momforGod at March 28, 2005 8:39 PM

Let's demand Three Medical Examiner, one from Micheal, one from her parents, and one from the State. That way, the answers can be the same, not differing from the other. Those Three has to be present during the Autospy and approve Yes and No for reasons for her Death and her Previous alleged abuses. The whole thing is Fishy, yes and it just makes me sick that the fact that Micheal is sitting there waiting inpatiently for her to die already. Even the Nurse testified that she heard him saying "When is the Bitch going to die?" Is that the way you can say for some one is going to die?

Posted by: momforGod at March 28, 2005 8:47 PM

Sample Letter to Send to Medical Examiner to demand a complete autopsy (MS probably consented to brain only)


Jon R. Thogmartin, M.D., District Chief Medical Examiner 10900 Ulmerton Rd., Largo FL 33778 Telephone #. (727) 582-6800 Fax # (727) 582-6820 mailto:wpellan@co.pinellas.fl.us

Dear Dr. Thogmartin:

When Terri Schiavo dies, the potential exists that a crime will be covered up by her planned cremation without an adequate autopsy. That potential crime is NOT the issue at the center of the present controversy, but the yet unsubstantiated allegation that an assault led to her condition in the first place.

It has been reported in the press that Michael Schiavo intends to cremate Terri Schiavo immediately upon her death. It has also been recently reported that Mr. Schiavo has consented to an autopsy. We are writing this letter to urgently request that a complete autopsy be performed. If Mr. Schiavo consented to a "limited autopsy" such as limited to the brain, important information could be missed. Please refer to the attached bone scan report and analysis.

According to the Medical Examiner's department policy posted at: http://www.co.pinellas.fl.us/forensics/policy/policystatement.htm#CA , the medical examiner must approve or deny all such requests.

There is an open quesiton of what led to her original "event".

Please disallow the cremation until the medical examiner's office can perform a complete postmortem examination from a forensic standpoint to determine both the immediate cause of death AND the proximate cause of death, including the search for any injuries from the past consistent with a potential crime.

Despite the currently accepted rationale for her initial “event”, evidence on postmortem examination may reveal that Terri Schiavo was the victim of a crime many years ago.

Judge Greer has not allowed an MRI or PET Scan. PET scans are of no value post mortem, but MRI may have some limited benefit, in addition to the physical autopsy, particularly for small, old injuries to ligaments and muscles that would be consistent with a trauma that occurred due to a crime (e.g. strangulation or abuse) if one had occurred.

If there are perpetrators of a crime covering something up, they will not want such an examination done. They will be afraid of justice.

Please act now to assure no authorization is given for cremation without a proper investigation and COMPLETE autopsy to address these issues.

Sincerely,

___________________________

Bone scan report available at:

http://www.rense.com/general63/scan.htm

Posted by: knox at March 28, 2005 8:47 PM

OH MY GOSH!!! This is scaring the hell out of me. Felos will have his own Dr. do the autopsy! This is their way of shutting us up!! This is the biggest cover up in front of our very EYES!

I do not doubt for a minute that they are reading these blogs. They are watching what we write. They know what is of concern to us!!!

Well, GOD SEES WHAT THEY HAVE DONE!! Including what our President has done! HOW can he possibly wish everyone a HAPPY EASTER and not say a word about Terri? He had his little barbeque! What did they eat while Terri is starving? I am sick to my stomach!

Posted by: LauraB at March 28, 2005 8:47 PM

momforGod,

Bingo!!!ego,control, hatred unto murder for anyone who rejects that person, esp. a spouse. Terri had to have told him she was leaving, or he found out somehow. I told my ex I was taking the kids to DQ. I'm still alive.

Has anyone seen Beth, the troll catcher on any of these comments???? Ask her, please, to e-mail me at tiptopd05@yahoo.com. Something of a sensitive nature I need to discuss with her.

Oh, and on the insensitive side, this server keeps telling me I'm not signed in when I am and then it wastes my comment and I have to sign in and re-write it. If this keeps up I'm going strangle it or something!!!!

Posted by: mary et. al. at March 28, 2005 8:55 PM

momforGod- You ARE RIGHT ON!!! That is why they are claiming that PULLING a feeding tube is NATURAL. What a sick twisted lie. LIFE INSURANCE!

Posted by: LauraB at March 28, 2005 8:55 PM

I echo the comment about the Schindlers demanding their own doctor to be present. I think it was stated that the autopsy would be done in Pinellas County. In my opinion, that county ought to just be renamed "Greer County." They need to have someone who does NOT report to the county government perform the autopsy, in my opinion.

Posted by: cw at March 28, 2005 8:57 PM

After we have seen the corruption of the judge, Michael's lawyer, the D.A., the police department and numerous others including some staff at Woodside Hospice and the other facilities Terri has been in(we just don't know who is in whose pocket yet)why are we going to believe anything that comes out of THIS county's medical examiner?

Two weeks ago there wasn't enough money on the planet to convince me what is happeneing to Terri Schiavo could happen... not in MY America.
Now, I don't know what to think or believe.

My faith in this nation and the "system" to do the right thing has been shaken. And just when I think this certain piece of info or affidavit or video will change the course of this dilemma, nothing changes except the tone of the blogs.

I am angry... How the heck did this happen? I am frustrated....Why can't someone do something? I am worried...Is this the start of the "slippery slope?" I am scared...Could this happen to someone I love?

Posted by: BarbaraAE at March 28, 2005 8:59 PM

Terri's parents should have an examiner come in from another city / maybe even another state just to oversee - not anyone in that town

Sending Prayers

Posted by: keeka at March 28, 2005 9:01 PM

BarbaraAE,
I feel the same way. I feel we have been lied to. The Democrat and the Republican party was a way to fool all of us.
WE the people were not making the choices for our country. Christians and the disabled are in trouble. If this was an Iraqi prisoner something would have been done to save her. But this is a Catholic disabled woman.
Every day I wake up I feel like I am in a different country. Like a very horrible nightmare!
This is Hitler and Saddam all over again. Our laws mean nothing if they cannot protect us.
God help us!

Posted by: LauraB at March 28, 2005 9:05 PM

Previewing your Comment
I will miss Terri very much. She has become my friend. I have seen her sheer exhausting struggle to do the most basic of functions that I take so much for granted .And I saw her try so hard even without any assitance for guardian, court or law...she has taught me to care and to pray for an other's cause. I have come to desire her success more than my own. I have invented dreams of her regaining her capabilities, of smiling in the sun and of showing the world that those cruel doubters were once and for all WRONG....and I would be vindicated and so afffirmed as she was ! I wanted the galiant lady to live and be well and be surrounded in the nurturing love of her family. I wanted her to make choices and express her wants, and thoughts,and to laugh loud and have that sound known to be a laugh ,not a random reflex. For years I've looked in on her first thing in the morning and then again late in the day..everyday...I knew her pain and I pained when she was diminished in public with ridicule and cruel insensitivity. I saw her glowing promise and I loved her eager possiblites. I became witness to her ex husband putting her in harms way agan and again , and I screamed in rage. Terri gained my affection and devotion for she unknowingly shared her plight with me. I will never forget her...nor forget how dark predjudice confined her to an solitude from the living that few have known. I will never forget her crippling deprivation callously sanctioned because controllers of her life did not value her life.I will never forget the humiliating existence she was forced at ehhand of her arrogant ex. I will never forget how she clung to life even when so many mercilessly called her dead...unconsolable insult since she fought so so desperately to be alive. And how I needed to triumph over her enemies for her and for her to triumph over mine for me. She was on my side and I on hers. my anguish is that I see that she never had a chance. Her death was controlled by the lies and the deceptions and the ugly prejudices that were designed to limit her of any self dermination. When I was a child,the lessons learned fron Gene Autry and Roy Rodgers on Saturday morning TV taught me that good does win over evil. An I believed that I could too. Because that is the order of my universe...I believed that my county was great and able to protect its citizens from identified harm. I believed that my leaders were responsive to the people who chose them. I will never see the world the same way again. I will never see Terri get what she wants, no matter what Michael tells Larry KIng. I will never again believe my country to be a land that protects the lives of the weak by insiting on their inclusion as my neighbor. I will never again feel safe that the weak are safe here in America. I will never again feel safe about my students futures...I will never again be safe. I needed Terri to triumph almost as much as she did I learned to love her very much. And God forgive me ....I do want something to very bad to happen to Michael Schiavo . I do not like it when the bad guys win...not at all!~

Posted by: JoJoFox at March 28, 2005 9:10 PM

just had another thought does anyone know who the insurance co may be - they are never to thrilled to settle a policy

tip off the insurance co of possible fraud

ditto Laura our laws mean nothing and after this nightmare even less if no one can stop this from happening in small town USA for the whole world to see on controled tv

God help is right

Posted by: keeka at March 28, 2005 9:12 PM

NBC is making me sick. Talk about one sided brainwashing! Politics!! Darn it! THIS IS A LIFE. Torturing a human being!!!!! And they want to make this POLITICS!!!

Posted by: LauraB at March 28, 2005 9:16 PM

JoJo~

Regarding the insurance company.... I was a special risk underwriter for 25 years, and I can assure you, they aren't gonna pay on this one until it is throurghly investigated.

Sheeeesh, who I am kidding? That was true only in the imaginary world I used to live in. Anything goes in this world!

Posted by: BarbaraAE at March 28, 2005 9:19 PM

I would definitely like to see a neutral party in for any autopsy. Although as I have heard said before, we can have experts testify to anything. I just wish we could get the facts without any spin.

I agree with the earlier comment, why try to determine how brain damaged she is AFTER she is dead? Why not get an MRI or MRA now?? Even an updated CT scan would be useful. Not the best, but better than nothing. Any of these tests are of little value, and apparently not accurate or useful after death. The reasoning regarding having an autopsy to determine her brain damage is almost laughable. ("Well, let's just make her starve and oh, my, she really ISN'T PVS after all! Ooops!") What is that about?

I called the governor, DCF, law enforcement, every day since her tube was pulled asking about oral feeding. I usually got, ...'we will pass your comments on....", or "no comment" or (this was a good one) "it is in the courts now", as if we should wait for a judge to decide if we should stop a crime that is being committed. I honestly do NOT believe she would choke, but if that were in doubt, it could easily be cleared up with a swallowing eval. Done all the time at even small one horse town hospitals. I know, I work in one of those. Video swallows can show if they 'silently' aspirate. Nobody has to guess or rely on testimony of nurses that are being discounted by the Schiavos. It amazes me that this has not been done. But it also amazes me she is hanging on.

Having said that, I am going to pray. At this hour, this is the best that I can do. I am sick of the news coverage, and I am not sure one more email to the Governor, or the US AG or any other person will help. God can work miracles, He already has.

I pray for peace and strength for her and her family, and most of all, justice. She may not get it here on this earth, but she will finally get to experience complete and total unconditional love.

God Bless. May your hearts find peace also.

Posted by: I hope at March 28, 2005 9:20 PM

just read

Jeb is still trying to work throug a bunch of legal webs to help Terri


Bobby just said this on hannity Colms show...

Pray on This that it isnt another let down

Posted by: keeka at March 28, 2005 9:24 PM

You all are aware that Michael Schiavo and his girlfriend are owners and run an "insurance" company out of there home. How many policies do you think they have out on Terri? You see you need an autopsy to clear you of any wrong doing to collect the money!! Maybe he has paid off the medical examiner already. Florida has lots of retirees.....

Posted by: tcarpenter at March 28, 2005 9:25 PM

I don't know. I just saw Jeb on NBC news saying he won't go against the law (Something to that effect) Then I heard a bunch of clapping in the background. Jeb smiled. I don't know what the heck is going on.

Posted by: LauraB at March 28, 2005 9:27 PM

Have no fear, justice will be served, its been promised. "Then he will say to those on his left 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink...And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life'. Matthew25:31-46.
I, too feel disillusioned about our country and our world, right and wrong no longer exist, it positivley chilling. His autopsy request stinks so bad I can smell it from here.

Posted by: 4life at March 28, 2005 9:32 PM

You all are aware that Michael Schiavo and his girlfriend are owners and run an "insurance" company out of there home. How many policies do you think they have out on Terri? You see you need an autopsy to clear you of any wrong doing to collect the money!! Maybe he has paid off the medical examiner already. Florida has lots of retirees..... [snip]

Posted by: tcarpenter at March 28, 2005 9:34 PM

tcarpenter,
Where did you find this info about the insurance company that they own? Michaels girl is not too smart. She is NEXT. Maybe even their kids.

He told Larry king in his 2003 interview that he put done his parents too. Look it up on Google. You can find the transcript from 2003.

Posted by: LauraB at March 28, 2005 9:36 PM

wonder how much money Michael made off his parents?

Posted by: LauraB at March 28, 2005 9:42 PM

I found the link for insurance off the impeach Greer petition. Everyone is so awesome about trying to get the truth out there. What has been done to Terri is absolutely heinous. She has all my prayers! and I have email the president, vice president, jeb, and the medical examiner. Also, check out this website:http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/michael_schiavo_remove_criminal_investigation.html Can someone fax this? Don't have a fax.

Posted by: tcarpenter at March 28, 2005 9:44 PM

I saw Felos saying there would be an autopsy.
As part of my mind was thinking,
" If they really have asked for an autopsy,
they know something in their favor."
Another part of my mind was reading a ticker
at the bottom of the screen.Something to the
effect : " Judge Greer has said abuse evidence
would be moot "
The closest I could come to that in my internet
searches is located here :
http://www.theempirejournal.com/0315052_dcf_appeals_schiavo_deci.htm

Towards the bottom of the article.Also,if
you'd like to know a bit more about the
Chief Medical Examiner Dr.Throgmartin read here
http://www.holysmoke.org/cw41.htm
Terri is Alive !

Posted by: lynaqua at March 28, 2005 9:44 PM

I wonder if it's right for Terri's body to have an autopsy. She's a martyr. What if she's a saint?

Posted by: GWL at March 28, 2005 9:45 PM

What a snake Felos is. The FL state attorney has demanded an autopsy, so one has to be performed, so Felos then goes to the press to make it look like it's Michael's idea, and isn't Michael fair for requesting it! You can't fool us all George Felos. We see the snake that you are you.

Posted by: Anna_Nordin at March 28, 2005 9:48 PM

I wish you all would make up your mind. First MS is a devil for wanting to cremate without an autopsy. Now he's a devil for publicly stating that there will be an autopsy. The autopsy is conducted by the state, and they are independent of MS. They are not in cahoots with MS. All I see on this site is hate toward the opposite side. This should be about respect for both sides and the tough decisions they have had to made. The unfortunate part is that this family was not able to sit down together make the decision together. It is not for us to decide what the outcome should be, instead it is for us to support both sides. I'm sure I've just made myself a troll target, however that is not my intent. My intent is that we stop demonizing someone we know nothing about, and realize that he's not the devil simply because he wants what he thinks is best for his wife.

Posted by: Sarah B at March 28, 2005 9:53 PM

I'm sorry but I do not believe Michael Schiavo or
his attorney. I feel that they are only making the comment about Terri's autospy to calm people down. Michael Schiavo is trying to take the heat off of himself. Sorry it will not work. We are not stupid people, Mr. Schiavo. If Michael was so concerned about Terri he would have tests ran before this. This scam autospy to be probably will be everything that Michael wants the world to know. Why..When you are without food and water for as long as Terri has been, all vital organs will shrink. Th brain and all. So it will look like to the lay person that Michael was right in his decision to pull the feeding tube. I agree that the Schindler family needs to have present their own doctor and legal person.
Midwestmom

Posted by: Midwestmom at March 28, 2005 9:55 PM


I looked up on Google and found the Larry King Live transcript from 2003 with Michael Schiavo. He said that DID AWAY WITH HIS PARENTS THIS WAY!!!!http://www.sweetliberty.org/bulletins/terri/lkl1.htm

Close to the bottom of the page. He also says that a person in a persistant vegitative state is considered terminally ill according to Florida state law.

SCHIAVO: Removing somebody's feeding is very painless. It is a very easy way to die. Probably the second better way to die, being the first being an aneurysm.

And it doesn't bother me at all. I've seen it happen. I had to do it with my own parents.

SCHIAVO: Persistent vegetative state in the state of Florida is considered terminal.

Posted by: LauraB at March 28, 2005 10:18 PM

Wonder how much life insurance Michael got for his parents so called NATURAL deaths.

Posted by: LauraB at March 28, 2005 10:21 PM

Felos and Schiavo are soooo caring... It seems that it is a Florida law that says the if an autopsy MUST be done if the body is to be cremated! How thoughtful of them.

Posted by: Tom Spence at March 28, 2005 10:21 PM

Brain in gear now... An autopsy must be done if the body is to be cremated.

Posted by: Tom Spence at March 28, 2005 10:24 PM

Sarah_B, I agree with you.

Keep reading, there's some other funny stuff too. Like one conservative listed all their reasons for the growth of the "culture of death", and one reason was feminisim.

Posted by: USB_Complete at March 28, 2005 10:24 PM

Why is it that all anyone wants to talk about is autopsies and bone scans? This whole "Something's Fishy with Michael" conspiracy is diverting attention away from the real point. What if there's nothing fishy with Michael? What if Terri Schiavo told Michael exactly what he told the court? What if Michael was the perfect prince of a husband who never raised a word to her in anger and he has had nothing but her wishes in mind the whole time?

Would that make all this OK!?!? NO! People must NEVER be allowed to have this happen to them, regardless of what they might THINK they want for themselves! It is not up to them! It is up to GOD! The Pope made his position absolutely clear and niether Michael NOR Terri has the right to disobey God or the Church.

That is what this fight is about! There is no 'Right to Die!' It doesn't exist! No matter how good or ill your intentions may be you must always use all available methods to allow life to go on or you are contravening His divine will and cannot reach heaven.

Posted by: Dean Smith at March 28, 2005 10:26 PM

Troll alert. USB Complete and Sarah_B! Yipes.
I am sorry. I could never agree with my son in law if he was lieing about the condition of my daughter so he could KILL HER, TORTURE HER! Michael is full of HATE not us.
I will not waste my breath.

Posted by: LauraB at March 28, 2005 10:27 PM

read www.terrischiavo.biz

Posted by: tcarpenter at March 28, 2005 10:28 PM

LauraB, how do you know Michael tortured her, beat her, denied her of her will? You don't, you're making an assumption because he has a different view than you. Be all self righteous if you want, but Christians should be embarrased of you.

Posted by: USB_Complete at March 28, 2005 10:30 PM

Laura,

How did I know I would be demonized for simply stating an opinion??? Simple, anyone here who has a different opinion is automatically ostrasized. I have not expressed either way how I feel, and I don't appreciate being called a troll, simply for stating the obvious.

Posted by: Sarah B at March 28, 2005 10:30 PM

American Heritage Dictionary, definition of psychosis: "A severe mental disorder, with or without organic damage, characterized by derangement of personality and loss of contact with reality and causing deterioration of normal social functioning."

Earlier posts today: "The only way many of the unanswered questions could be adressed is through an autopsy ... Michael Schiavo, with court backing, has vowed to cremate Terri's body immediately following her death, thus covering up potentially vital information that could assist investigators ... if there are perpetrators of a crime covering something up, they will not want such an examination done. They will be afraid of justice."

Now reports come out that an autopsy will be done; new posts follow: "It might well be that no new evidence could be adduced at this late date by an autopsy, when it comes to the neck compression injury and the other suspicious findings of the original examination. Perhaps Michael knows this." ... "Starvation and dehydration shrinks the brain, so it will look like she was worse off than she was." ... "Something is fishy about MS all of a sudden ordering an autopsy." ... "Some one said that Micheal is not looking for Life Insurance Money and not seeking. Then why the need to approve Autospy? Life Insurance requires Autospy and a Death Certificate. If you look at the Rules of Life Insurance, it has to be in Natural Causes, not Murder in order to approve Life Insurance Money to Micheal. You see the picture now? That is why Micheal is approving the Autospy so the Life Insurance can release the money to him. Or he is just trying to avoid the Label "Murderer"?"

Interesting how the tone of the posts change to justify what you already believe.

Posted by: chief at March 28, 2005 10:32 PM

Is someone hacking this site? I have tried to post proof of the Michael Schiavo's insurance company via this link: [no executables]

Hopefully it will stay on the board because it is very pertinant!

Posted by: tcarpenter at March 28, 2005 10:32 PM

tcarpenter.

WHY ARE YOU POSTING EXECUTABLES?

Careful folks!

Posted by: Tom Spence at March 28, 2005 10:34 PM

p.s. I make this post with the full expectation of being called a troll, Nazi, murderer, etc. Isn't it so much simpler to villify someone ... or call them psychotic ... then to actually try and understand their perspective?

Posted by: chief at March 28, 2005 10:34 PM

Sarah, first, an autopsy is required by Florida law if one wants to cremate a body.

As to Michael, I fail to see the "hate" you say. Please point to even one post where someone has claimed to "hate" Michael. Holding hatred for another is a mortal sin.

Are we critical of Michael? You bet. Here are SOME of the reasons why:

- The man has argued over and over for his wife to die. On CNN, he allegedly said he did not know his wife's wishes.

- The man has failed to allow video cameras or tape recorders in the room. These would PROVE his case, if she is truly in a "persistent vegetative state." The claim is that photos would violate her "privacy." Well, Felos has no problem discussing her medical condition in public with reporters. Clearly, I don't understand why it's okay to violate her privacy that way but not okay to take new photos. Furthermore, if Terri is truly "peaceful" and "beautiful," why not show us the pictures?

- Bobby Schindler has said Terri looks like an Auschwitz victim. Felos won't allow photographs to back up his claim that she looks "beautiful." Bobby Schindler has called on Michael Schiavo or Felos to allow photographs. Bobby Schindler is willing to back up his claims with photographs.

- The man has caused his wife to be denied food and water orally through Judge Greer's order (obviously, he MICHAEL objected to Greer's order, it would not have happened). Jesus said "Whatsoever you to do the least of My people, that you do unto Me. When I was hungry you gave me to eat. When I was thirsty you gave me to drink." Terri is truly one of the least of God's people. That denial means God Almighty Himself has been denied food and drink.

- According to television interviews with the Schindlers, they are SEARCHED when they enter the hospice to visit their daughter. Why?

- Michael Schiavo has a live-in girlfriend and two children by said live-in girlfriend. HE IS MARRIED TO TERRI! He took vows.

- Some refer to Michael's live-in girlfriend as a "fiancee." He is still married to Terri (and note that when one is divorced in the secular sense, they are still married in God's eyes).

- Michael Schiavo received hundreds of thousands of dollars FOR TERRI'S CARE. He spent much of that money on the case to cause her to be slowly starved and denied liquids.

- As a result of this atrocity (my opinion), CHILDREN HAVE BEEN ARRESTED BRING A DYING WOMAN A DRINK OF WATER.

- There is NO "tough decision." Michael Schiavo should have just given Terri back to her parents. End of story.

- You talk about the family not being able to sit down together to talk. Well, who was trying to cause Terri to die a slow death and who wants her to live?

- There are serious disputes about Terri's condition and whether she is truly "PVS." The Schindlers, priests, friends of Terri, Schindlers' lawyers, etc. have, in effect, been called LIARS throughout this entire process. NOTHING said by A NUMBER OF PEOPLE is even entertained. Do you know that if a person gets on television and LIES about Terri's condition (lying in public), he/she has committed an especially a mortal sin? It is a mortal sin for anyone to do this. But Roman Catholic priests who have visited Terri have also said she is NOT "PVS." It would be even worse if a priest lied since he would be setting a bad example. I REFUSE to believe that so many people, including priests, have lied.


As to the state doing the autopsy, let's remember that Governor Bush is powerless against Greer. The United States Congress is powerless against Greer. IN MY OPINION, the United States government and Florida state government bows to Judge Greer. So, forgive me if I don't exactly trust the state autopsy report. But that is just MY OPINION. Furthermore, I think I heard that the autopsy would be done in Pinellas County. That is the county where this atrocity (my opinion) is taking place.

Posted by: cw at March 28, 2005 10:37 PM

Micheal offed his own Parents in the same way? He said I have been there before...ummm must be nice way to collect Money this way! And the way how he said he wanted Autospy really sends an alarm...it shows that he wants proof so he can use it for his Life Insurance Policy on Terri. How convienent. Ok, stop right there...Look back 15 yrs ago, Terri drops and had a heart attack...ok got it...then he said it is her wishes not to die this way, but ummm how? He has to make it natural as much as possible in order to collect Life Insurance, because if it was Murder, he cannot collect at all...so thus her Parents came in the picture fighting makes it difficult for Micheal to "achieve" his dreams, making it 15 years now and he finally won, but thinking umm Got to make it natural...oh yes, I remember my Parents, let's pull the Feeding Tube out...and Bingo! Here comes the Life Insurance Money in the Mail! How sick is he? He KNEW that the Feeding Tube is the only way to make things a Natural Cause to put on the Death Certificate! Because Medically, if you Put lethal Injection of some Chemical, it would not be declared "Natural Causes", Right? Let's stop Micheal in his tracks and SAVE Terri. I have one question though, if she was indeed strangled, why didn't they just charge Micheal for Attempted Murder? and it will make way for her Parents to step in to save her Daughter?

Posted by: momforGod at March 28, 2005 10:39 PM

Calling a person the devil or a nazi seem to be hatred to me. Those are just as strong as using the term hate. And I'm fine with an autopsy being donem irregardless of why it is being done. I think a couple sites have spun this entire idea of him not wanting an autopsy, when I'm not sure he's every really stated anything about it. And I have a problem with a lot of the sources that have been used on this site. A reputable site would be Fox or one of the other major news sources. The empire journal cannot be considered reputable. It's a biased source.

Without taking a side here, I just wish people wouldn't be so mean here, that's not the message you want to get across.

Posted by: Sarah B at March 28, 2005 10:43 PM

Tom Spence-

When I pull up the page that is the web address- how do I post otherwise??? Thanks.

Posted by: tcarpenter at March 28, 2005 10:43 PM

"As to Michael, I fail to see the "hate" you say."

Oh I see - calling him a murderer, liar and torturer isn't "hate".

"As a result of this atrocity (my opinion), CHILDREN HAVE BEEN ARRESTED BRING A DYING WOMAN A DRINK OF WATER."

They should be charged with attempted murder - seriously, what are the kids hoping to do when they bring water to Terri? She would choke and die if they tried to force it down her throught.

"There are serious disputes about Terri's condition and whether she is truly "PVS." The Schindlers, priests, friends of Terri, Schindlers' lawyers, etc. have, in effect, been called LIARS throughout this entire process."

An in effect, you have called all the doctors that have diagnosed Terri as "PVS" as LIARS. Take your pick.

Posted by: USB_Complete at March 28, 2005 10:44 PM

It may be legit, I don't know since I will NEVER click a link to an executable file or, for that matter, just about any .BIZ site which you posted earlier, But that is just me.

Posted by: Tom Spence at March 28, 2005 10:46 PM

MS's settlement for malpractice and caring for Terri was larger because of her lifespan potential. In other words, she was supposed to live a normal lifespan. After the award of the $1.+ million, his story changed to she wanted to die. The malpractice insurance would have never paid out so much money if that "truth" was presented. Everyone including insurance company expected Terri to be rehabilitated and live a normal life expectancy like you and me. He has been trying to all legal loopholes to have her put to death. Michael Schiavo you can't always afford that bodyguard to protect you!!!!

Posted by: tcarpenter at March 28, 2005 10:48 PM

Full moon tonight? Seems like the trolls all came out of the woodwork at once.

Posted by: Dave_MN at March 28, 2005 10:55 PM

Full moon or jr. high school just got out.

Posted by: Tom Spence at March 28, 2005 10:57 PM

Hmmm, an autopsy eh?
Better than no autopsy, but not much. You see, I live here on the Gulf Coast of Florida. This entire coast, from Tampa to Naples is the "retire & die" capital of the US. Tha 'majority' of Doctors, Hospitals, Nurses, etc... are well-versed and knowledgable in "end of life" issues, but anything else tends to be hit-or-miss.
Not to mention, so many old people are dying every day that it becomes the "norm"... the ME's offices are OVERWHELMED and generally perform a pathetically shoddy job. Check the Herald-Tribune about a year ago for a HUGE rightup on how badly our ME offices have been doing. I guess it is so much easier to put "natural causes" (since most of the deaths around here are) or "homicide" (if it is blatently obvious)... but anything beyond that would require Work & Resources (so don't hold your breath).
On a second point, there are two likely possibilities:
(1) Michael wants the "brain damage" confirmed [that leaves a whole lot of the body being ignored], and therefore with that very narrow focus, and the delicateness of brain tissue [especially after dehydration], he will likely not have much to worry about. After all, the brain is one of the LEAST understood mechanisms of the body.
(2) Then again, his "demanding" an autopsy screams of a later excuse of "the judge ORDERED no autopsy... my hands are tied".

Posted by: Raquel at March 28, 2005 10:59 PM

"Chief" - each commenter speaks for him or herself. The only issue I raised with the planned autopsy was purpose and scope. The extent of brain damage, which can be determined prior to death, is presented by the media and Felos as the purpose for their planned autopsy, while the issues that were raised in prior posts are, according to Felos, the result of watching too much CSI.

Since you chose to characterize this list with the term "psychosis", you're gone.

Posted by: blogsforterri at March 28, 2005 11:02 PM

Oh well.. Time to get back to my pagan sacrifices. That's what we do, people who don't agree with your view.

Posted by: USB_Complete at March 28, 2005 11:02 PM

Ok, you say that it would be Terri's Wishes to Die and would not want to be put this way Claims her Husband. Ok, Let's put the sake of the arguement, that is true according to her "wishes", then why did Micheal also offed his Parents too in 2003? It becomes a Norm for Micheal because he is doing not once, but twice over. He said "I have been there before", "It is painless"...never said a word "Wishes". And is it irony that he has his own Insurance Company? Alright who is next according to his or her wishes? His Girlfriend? His Kids? His Aunt? He said "If according to their wishes, I would do it again."

About Terri's Heart Attack, and the Collapse in her Home and the Paramedics noticed something was "off" in her Home, noticed her Neck was strangled. Is that from Eating Disorder, she was Bulimic and the Fact that her Parents did not know she had the condition and that she would never have those wishes to die, and not to be put this way. She is a Praticing Catholic and should know better about their Policy and she would not risk herself to be disavowed from that Church. I don't know, we may never know the answer because it might die with her. She would never come back and have her Say in Court. In 15 years, alot of things can change your Mind. Even me, I changed my Mind from 15, 20 yrs ago. Every body does. She wants to Live, and she told her parents she wants to Live but has been ignored over and over by her Husband, and others.

Posted by: momforGod at March 28, 2005 11:03 PM

USB, I know I really should not waste my time responding, but I cannot resist.

As to the people trying to bring water to an innocent, dying woman sentenced to starvation and dehydration, no they should not be charged with anything of the sort. The Schindler family asked for an experiment. It could have been done with doctors present. Greer denied it totally. Furthermore, there are reports from some that she swallows her own saliva. But she was not even given a chance. She was just sentenced to slow starvation and dehydration. Period.

As to doctors, no I have not. Have you ever gone for a second, third, fourth, etc. opinion on a medical condition? If you have, would you equate that with calling previous doctors "liars"? But let's remember that there are neurologists who have said she is NOT "PVS" including at least one who has personally examined her. But nobody listens to them.

Anyway, considering that you and others (see, I didn't say "trolls") are starting to remind me of that episode of Star Trek called "The Trouble With Tribbles," I shall now spend my time responding to those who are disgusted by the starvation and dehydration of Terri Schiavo.

Posted by: cw at March 28, 2005 11:12 PM

Here is my Handle Spin: What if Terri was living in Texas? Would you have a different view? Or is it just important to Life saving than to say oh no, it is impossible, it was her wishes...Do we have the right to put our hands on another body and pull the plug? If it was another way around, it is called Murder, no matter how you look at it. It is still Murder. Life's choice to keep living is made by that Person alone, and make death choices should be made by the Person himself alone, without the help of other people's hands on his body. God and Bible says over and over, is not to kill the Person by your Hand, but if he/she kills himself/herself, it is her/his Choice, period. In Terri's Case, she was not in PVS, she is able to talk, but just disabled, had her feeding tube pulled by another "hand" of another Person, it is seen as Murder. God would say "Don't touch that Body!" Do everything you can do to Save that Person. Don't say "It is not our Business". God knows what you are thinking and doing. Proverbs 24:25

Posted by: momforGod at March 28, 2005 11:15 PM

First thought...
Michael is ALLOWING an autopsy... wondering who he's go paid off for that? Maybe the hospice has one availible to him????

I'm not giving up on Terri. Any Psychologist will say that had she "wanted" to die, she'd be dead.
I believe that the Lord is taking care of her personally..and my prayer is that she will testify to what Michael has really done.

As for Michael, Felos, and Greer... I encourage all to forgive them and not hate them. Why? Because then revenge is the Lords alone. I know he can do a much better job. Also then we can be at total peace with ourselve.

God bless...
We love you Terri..
Still praying

Posted by: prcjewel at March 28, 2005 11:20 PM

Listen, people, if you want to believe schiavo, felos and greer, go ahead. What is that to us? And what has all this to do with you? Are you afraid that we will think badly of you or try to stop you if you should ever be in a position to follow in ms's footsteps? Justify your interest in this case and on this site or butt out.

I hope,

I hope in God only. He is the one I petition these days and I'm not going to bother going to any one else.

EWL,

All martyrs are not only saints, but top of the line saints. They are the creme de la creme in heaven. Greater love has no man...

Dean Smith,

We talk about fishy smells because we want to stop this, and any "awe, to heck with it" attitudes not only fail to serve justice but also fail to prevent future events.

If these people are innocent of what we suspect, they have nothing to fear and don't need their would be champions. But if they are guilty, then their champions are going to look foolish. Either way we must get to the bottom of it and if schiavo and friends are all that innocent they might as well relax and/or lend a hand.

Posted by: mary et. al. at March 28, 2005 11:27 PM

Sarah B (from 9:53 posting) First of all, each person here is expressing his or her own opinion of which the rest of the poster may agree with or disagree with and you're incorrect to assume all writers have the same opinions and erroneiously refer to the collective group of writer as 'you'. I'm not demonizing anyone so I take offense to being placed in the category of people who do.

USB Complete from 10:24p posting: The type of mocking you are displaying indicates you are operating at the level of a 5 year old, in my professional opinion.

USB Complete from 10:30p posting: LauraB was referring to the torture Terri likely experienced is likely experiencing from the dehydration and starvation. That is obviously from her statement. She wasn't referring to any times previous to her feeding tube being removed. You're not reading/understanding the comments properly, which typically happens when one is angry; it clouds their ability to perceive things accurately.

Laura B from 10:30p posting; I don't see where you've been demonized by Laura. Care to explain?

Sarah B: from 10:43p: you're generalizing, we aren't all 'mean'. Some people here are angry, off track and perhaps even hateful, over a situation they are deeply distressed and concerned about. Humans tend to do that, on both sides, doesn't prove or mean their wrong or right, if that is the bottom line you're interested in. Do you have personal anger issues that you need to deal with? Fox, the good news source according to you, just exposed a lie told by Felos. Fox news was the station that reported an autopsy was required by the state. Felos had previously stated it was per Michael Schiavo's initiative (per MSNBC).

USB Complete at 10:38 posting: Re: children 'attempting' to bring water in to Terri. We have no idea whether they were doing it as a symbolic gesture to make that point about how ridiculous it was that our society has fallen to place where it's illegal to give someone water. That she would choke and die is speculation. She has been observed and it has been documented on sworn affidavits by R.N.s that she has been observed taking liquids by mouth without choking and she has been swallowing her own saliva for years. Re: the diagnosis of PVS or non-PVS; it doesn't necessarily have to be that the M.D. making either diagnosis is lying. Medicine is an art in addition to being a science. There will often be differences of opinion which is a much different scenario than a physician lying about a diagnosis. Are you saying the Schindlers, priests, friends of Terri's lawyers, etc are being called liars because they believe the diagnosis that their doctors are giving them? Certainly the doctors that are giving her the diagnosis of PVS can't necessarily be called liars, they may just be incorrect.

Posted by: Anna_Nordin at March 28, 2005 11:34 PM

prcjewel, BINGO!!!

Forgiveness is essential if we are to pray effectively and with power for Terri. His blood is more than sufficient.. for ALL.

There are those here that are here just to stir the pot and cause controversy. We won't change their minds, so let's leave them be and go on about our business of trying to help Terri, and change things for the future.

Posted by: Dave_MN at March 28, 2005 11:42 PM

I have to tell you that reading through these I start to wonder whos side you all are on. As the comments go on you start attacking each other instead of focusing on what the real issue is. We will never, never, never find out what Terris real wishes were-this is horrible. It is horrible that we live in a society where we as imperfect humans get to choose who is worthy of life and who is not-it is unbelievable to me. As the days go on, those that despise right to lifers are going to come up with a way to spin this out of control-Every move we make will be analized and made to look overzealous. I can not tell you how many times in the past few days I have heard "they claim to be christians but look at them." (because chating and singing and trying to give a thristy woman water is somehow civil disopbedience) It is going to be bad enough fighting the ones who want Terri to die-lets not fight each other.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 28, 2005 11:44 PM

PRCJewel, excellent point! Remember, harboring hatred for another human being is a mortal sin. To do this pleases the devil. It probably pleases the devil even more when he can get someone who is in tune with Christian morals to do it.

We must hate the sin and love the sinner. We are ALL sinners. As a general rule, in any situation, we must continue to speak out against evil acts. But we cannot turn that into hatred. First, it offends Almighty God. Second, it pleases the devil. Third, it allows anyone in favor of starvation and dehydration of Terri Schiavo to accuse us of being hypocritical. Fourth, it sets a bad example.

Most importantly, we must be able to FORGIVE Greer, Felos, Michael Schiavo, and all others who have allowed by commission or ommission this atrocity (my opinion) to occur. Remember the Our Father as taught by our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ: "...And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" (emphasis mine). When we pray that prayer, we are putting our own salvation on the line. We will be forgiven by God for our many sins ACCORDING to the way we have forgiven others. That includes people like Michael Schiavo, Greer, Felos, etc. That even extends to the likes of Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. We must forgive all of them.

Let's make it clear, of course, that while we must forgive them, in cases of elected officials, there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to assist a TRULY pro-life opponent to defeat them in the next election. This should never be done in a spirit of revenge, but rather, in a spirit of trying to fill the seat with someone who is TRULY pro-life. (And remember to do some research on the candidate. Do not simply accept some warm and fuzzy speeches about allegedly being pro-life.) Those legislators who voted against legislation to help Terri are occupying what are essentially rotating seats (we do not live in a monarchy or dictatorship, at least I think). It is perfectly legitimate to help TRULY pro-life opponents. (It's a waste of time, however, if a pro-abortion or pro-euthanasia opponent comes along and they are just helped out of spite for the incumbent. In such cases, if there is really no truly pro-life candidate for a particular office, the best thing would be to avoid voting for anyone in that race.)

We must always remember that any one of us or any of our friends could be in Terri's position one day. We must work toward a society that is compassionate towards innocent people rather than simply demanding compassion for convicted criminals, terrorists, etc. Clearly, convicted criminals and terrorists should not receive cruel and unusual punishment. But then, NOBODY should. In my opinion, that is exactly what Terri is receiving.

Posted by: cw at March 29, 2005 12:18 AM

I appreciate all comments supportive of Terri but I really appreciate comments that are in some way tied to the associated post. This thread, although substantive, is straying. Get your last remarks in because it will be closed soon.

Posted by: blogsforterri at March 29, 2005 12:32 AM

wow, I can't believe how incompetent and ignorant so many of you are about medicine. try spending 4 years at a medical school learning everything possible about the human body before you come to any conclusions or conjectures. dehydration has specific effects on the brain. csf volume will stay approximately the same, with possible elevation in protein concentration. a bunch of you assume that dehydration is somehow going to eat away at her brain and that will somehow explain the signifcant atrophy that will inevitably be present on autopsy. brain matter just doesn't disappear in 11 days.

furthermore, her CT scans are readily available online... the standard - ventricular enlargement. what are ventricles? cavities in her brain (which all of us have) filled with csf (cerebrospinal fluid). in alzhemer's patients, these cavities are enlarged... due to brain deterioration... in terri's brain, we saw a huge amount of atrophy and hence ventricle.

i'm sorry if people felt moved by the videos, but what's the point if all she's making is random noise? the only hope for this woman was neuroneogenesis (i.e. the creation of new neurons). which is next to impossible without the use of stem cell research. and judging from the posts and comments here, i'm willing to be most of you do NOT support stem cell research. now if it were a choice between saving terri with stem cells or not using them at all, what would you do? please try to retain objectivity and equanimity.

so stop it with your conspiracy theories, please. be objective.

Posted by: ivy med student at March 29, 2005 1:06 AM

Now, before anyone gets annoyed with a certain recent post here, remember the phrase "Don't feed the ......" (Note: I did not call them "trolls.") I'm guilty of it myself.

We can take solace in realizing that multiple doctors disagree with the "PVS" diagnosis.

Posted by: cw at March 29, 2005 1:27 AM

You know, I love how the doctors who "disagree" -- some of them aren't even real physicians (i.e. in the affidavits)... most of them came out of the woodwork simply when this case was being contested - there's another cruel coincidence for you.
and if you look at the medical charts over 14 years, the negative PVS diagnosis has been made throughout... leave it to the people who have actually SEEN her over the years, and not random other precedents. Not all brain injury patients are equal. "Troll"? More like educated medical opinionn, sorry. It's better than what you can offer.

Posted by: ivy med student at March 29, 2005 1:35 AM

ivy med student

Take your own advice. I would safely guess that virtually all readers and contributors to this site DO support ADULT stem cell research, you know, the stem cells that actually have cured various maladies (hundreds of cases of proven efficacy) without destroying a life. What most here oppose is embryonic stem cell research, that is the type which not only involves destroying the "donor" but has had exactly zero, zip, none, no success whatsoever. In fact, embryonic stem cells have the nasty habit developing into runaway tumors.

So, since you just throw around the ambiguous term "stem cells" without specifying which type you show the true extent of your so-called expertise. A real med student would use a real term.

Posted by: Tom Spence at March 29, 2005 1:40 AM

cw,

Sorry, it is late and I'm cranky. The feeding will stop.

Posted by: Tom Spence at March 29, 2005 1:44 AM

Tom, no problem, it's understandable. This is a tough situation.

As to the specific userID saying he/she is a med student, with no proof or listed credentials I won't take the claim seriously.

Posted by: cw at March 29, 2005 1:50 AM

The fundamental issue related to the first post is whether or not the planned autopsy will answer questions related to the "history of trauma" and the neck injury that were observed following Terri Schiavo's collapse. The medical doctor who sent out the original call included a particular scope that would be necessary to answer these questions.

A somewhat related question is who ordered the planned autopsy. All MSM have reported Felos assertion that it was Michael Schiavo and this may indeed be the case.

Someone suggested that it was actually FL officials who ordered what Felos is claiming Michael wants. However, I have yet to see any documented evidence supporting this position. If you have the link, please email it to me.

Posted by: tim at March 29, 2005 2:38 AM

You know, Ivy Med Student, I sure hope you don't grow up to be my doctor. You don't sound nearly as compassionate as my father, the M.D, or my husband's uncle, the M.D., my aunt the R.N., or my sister-in-law the R.N. You must be very young, to assume that everyone who thinks it is unethical to starve Terri Schiavo to death is a "creationist" or a "lunatic."

Bringing stem cells into Terri's case is a red herring at this point. She's not dying of any medical cause, but rather of a legal one. The question of whether or not she could be cured is essentially irrelevant to whether or not she should be starved to death. I submit for your consideration that if you treated a lab animal as Terri is being treated, you would go to jail. How then can it be legally or morally defensible to starve her?

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 29, 2005 2:44 AM

[moderator note - the following are logical fallacies: asserting educational superiority as the basis of an argument, demeaning others by calling them "ignorant" to strengthen an argument, mischaracterizing and/or exaggerating the position of others (e.g., "eat away") to strengthen an opposing argument, attacking an argument which is not held by your opponent rather than his actual position ("stem cells") and assuming the argued conclusion (e.g., "random noise").]

Posted by: blogsforterri at March 29, 2005 2:51 AM