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March 30, 2005

Federal Appealls Court OKs Schiavo Review

Topics: Legal affairs

There are positive indications coming from Florida and now good news from a federal appeals court.

Mar 30, 12:40 AM (ET)

ATLANTA (AP) - A federal appeals court early Wednesday agreed to consider a petition for a new hearing on whether to reconnect Terri Schiavo's feeding tube.

The ruling by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals came as the severely brain-damaged woman entered her 13th day without nourishment.

Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, have maintained that Schiavo would want to be kept alive and have asked the courts to intervene. Schiavo's husband, Michael, insists he is carrying out her wishes by having the feeding tube pulled.

HT: StandingInTheTrenches

Posted by tim at March 30, 2005 1:10 AM


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Comments

Does anyone know if this means that they will start an IV with fluids? I was looking at prolife blogs and someone suggested this might be. Just wondering.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 30, 2005 1:34 AM

I know this is not in regards to the posting but in case someone doesn't make it through all the comments on the previous post.

I just received a link from another group that has some video of Terri with her dad. It is a must see video - there is absolutely no way that anyone watching that would say Terri is NOT communicating with her dad. It is so so obvious! I don't know how someone got this but if you can, download it and send it to media. It is amazing.

Keep praying and praying. Maybe our prayers are going to be answered soon!
Here's the link: http://4lifeshaperite.com/rumbles/Conversations_with_Terri.html

Posted by: LifeisPrecious at March 30, 2005 1:35 AM

I pray that this review will allow the tube to be reconnected. May God protect Terri and strengthen her parents.

Posted by: Lynn at March 30, 2005 1:47 AM

Is the Federal Appeals Court finally doing what Congress ordered them to do -- hear the case "de novo"? That's what it looks like to me. Perhaps they were in fear of being found in contempt of Congress.

However, we have to keep calling the FL Senate, in case the appeal to the court is thrown back again.

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 30, 2005 1:56 AM

LifeisPrecious - Blogsforterri hosted that video and others here: http://www.blogsforterri.com/video.php.

Posted by: tim at March 30, 2005 2:06 AM

alwayschoselife;
Thank you for the link. I had gotten it before from elsewhere but the server it was on always was out of bandwidth. I finally got to see it and I bawled immediately. Terri is so much alive, she just can't communicate much. Jeb and the senators need to see that video.

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 30, 2005 2:16 AM

There was no time frame for the court to consider the motion, but the Schindler's attorneys asked to have the tube reinserted immediately "in light of the magnitude of what is at stake and the urgency of the action required."

Posted by: Vanessa at March 30, 2005 2:17 AM

Thanks Tim. I don't know how I missed it. Do you know why this hasn't been aired? It seems to be more "proof" than the balloon video we keep seeing on tv. I was simply amazed at it, although I have never doubted Terri's abilities. Thanks for letting me know. I really got excited when I saw it - she is so obviously communicating with her Dad!

Posted by: LifeisPrecious at March 30, 2005 2:17 AM

Touching video in one respect. Unfortunately, the video is labeled "Terri Speaks" yet she's not really speaking. If this is sent to Jeb Bush or Congress people, they will have the same idea in their mind that this video is about to show her speaking. Yet the video only shows a couple of moans which will just disappoint their imagination and cause more inaction. Worse yet, to prove critics wrong, the Schindlers must release more footage they have gathered over the 15 yrs Terri has been suffering. A couple clips won't silence critics who can easily refute the videos by saying that over the course of 15 years, it's very possible that Terri occasionally had moans and groans randomly coincide with her father saying stuff to her.

Although 13 days is a hell of a fight to put up. One strong girl!

Posted by: CriticalThinker at March 30, 2005 2:24 AM

Hi ya critical:

Yeah, Terri is one strong girl...One strong LIVING girl.

Posted by: Tress at March 30, 2005 2:27 AM

Hi CriticalThinker. I hate to disagree with you about the "not speaking". It is not speaking in terms as how you and I and other typical people speak. However, I have a child who has Down Syndrome and Autism. She is non verbal. She attempts to communicate exactly as Terri is doing in this video. When you are with someone all the time, you learn to recognize certain speech patterns and what they mean. I know it sounds like gibberish to most people but it really wasn't. It is apparent her dad was understanding what she was saying as viewed by Terri's reactions to what he said. (Hope that sentence made sense.) It's hard to explain if you haven't experienced communication in this manner. It was definitely a conversation where one appropriately responded to what the other was saying.

Posted by: LifeisPrecious at March 30, 2005 2:31 AM

LifeisPrecious-
With all due respect, it's one tape from the last 15 years. I support Terri for the simple reason that she breathes and therefore is living. I do think though that people are exaggerating her "speaking". With so much support, bandwidth costs shouldn't be a problem and the whole videos should be put online. If I noticed that she is responding only when provided with stimulation, then I will agree that she is trying to communicate. Unfortunately, only a couple seconds are shown so If Terri was making those same noises all day and just repeating them, then her father could easily talk to her and appear to have her responding. Fortunately, I've learned to filter spin from both sides and be skeptical of what both sides are showing. I have a feeling that there is hours upon days of footage of Terri not responding or responding randomly to nothing. Therefore, I dismiss this video as concrete evidence of communication. Even if a person doesn't communicate though, doesn't mean that they should die.

Posted by: CriticalThinker at March 30, 2005 2:57 AM

There have been hours and days of Terri all alone with absolutely no stimulus whatever.

The sounds Terri makes and the things she does do when asked, like open her eyes (see Big Eyes video) are purposeful. These acts indicate brain function and are not typical of a person with no brain.

Sometimes I think many people would believe the sky was falling if someone with authority said it once.

Posted by: democrat at March 30, 2005 3:08 AM

democrat-
My problem with the open your eyes video is where's the rest of it? How many times did they try to get her to open her eyes? Maybe after weeks, she coincidently opened her eyes when asked. These are all things that are possible and therefore should not be dismissed for overzealous beliefs. As for brain function, I never have doubted that. You need brain function to maintain everything. She can breathe on her own which, unlike the heart, is dependent on the brain to fuction correctly. To much emphasis on these videos, not enough on the fact that she's still breathing on her own.

Posted by: CriticalThinker at March 30, 2005 3:18 AM

I agree with you that information can be twisted to say what ever you want it to. However if you take the tape segments and the nurses and friends testimony and then take into consideration that there has to be a reason that Michael Schiavo has locked Terri away from the sight of everyone. Combine that with the fact that he used her responding to him in the malpractice case.

Truly, whether Terri communicates or not should not be an issue. CNN has had several people on over the last while who were at some point entirely unable to communicate and thought to be vegetables. Yet now they are fully functioning. They have discussed how terifying it was to be at the mercy of others and they also discussed being in pain and unable to indicate it.

Do I think that it is possible in Terri's case for her to pull out of all of this? I don't know, but I don't think anyone knows.

I have read article after article that says that there are people walking around functioning just fine with brain scans that indicate they should be very disabled and others who have relatively normal scans that are terribly disabled. People deserve the benifit of the doubt and regularly beat the odds. The brain is an amazing mechanism and terribly complex. Doctors are shocked on a semi regular basis and it just leaves me wondering when they are going to figure out that they just don't have all of the answers?

If Terri stays unable to communicate and essentially remains the same as she has been for years, it doesn't really matter. Her family loves her and that is a powerful thing. Little babies will turn their faces to the wall and die if all they recieve is the basics of life and no love and physical contact. Love and contact are amazingly powerful and if all she can experience is that, that's ok.

It is hard to explain communication with someone like Terri, you just feel the life, you learn to understand the intent. I think that is one of the reasons that it has been so hard for a lot of people to understand. It isn't something that a person can explain very well and so it comes across a little strange when the Shindlers say that they just know and that is all they can say.

Posted by: imdll at March 30, 2005 3:40 AM

Hmmm, I understand what you are saying.

Terri's parents have had very limited access to her over the years and they had to pirate in the camera. I found it most interesting to view the videos from a before and after perspective. Terri before a request was made and Terri after. The difference is profound and in my very critical mind there is no doubt that she was purposefully responding.

Anyway, there is another reason the material is valuable: it's the videos of Terri that brought massive public attention to her case. Many people who saw the videos saw a woman who was very much alive, not comatose, not a vegetable, and knew instantly that something was very, very wrong since they also knew that her husband and the courts were trying to kill her off.

If no one had seen the videos Terri's parents battle to save her life may have ended in 2003.

It is not only the valliant efforts of her parents and supporters that saved Terri and brought us all together, it's the forbidden videos that saved her life.

Posted by: democrat at March 30, 2005 3:47 AM

It all should have been decided something like this.

It matters not whether Terri is alive or dead.

If Terri is alive she should be fed.

All the post death stuff like funerals and such are really to help the living. If Terri is dead, food and water should be provided because that is what would help Terri's family.

Posted by: its_not_a_tumor at March 30, 2005 3:55 AM

The problem with the videos is that they're highly suggestive and subjective.
There are hours upon hours of tape but you only see a few seconds each time where there's a response.

If they end up leading to a new trial where a consensus is reached on her actual condition then releasing them will have been a good thing.
But in the end I know I'm not qualified to make a determination and I also know that our mind is just wired to see order and meaning where there is none and that mere wishful thinking will make someone see things that just aren't real.

If doctors can come together and conclude she's in a state of minimal consciousness that's what I'll believe.
If they conclude she's in PVS and her reactions are just random neurons firing I'll accept that.

After reading about what Terri's father did with his mother, I'm feeling rather cynical about her parents so I'll apologize in advance if it makes me put things more bluntly or sharply than I should.
The videos serve a purpose but I don't think anyone should blindly trust them. They've raised doubt and that should be looked into and hopefully will but they're not a definite answer.

Posted by: Vanessa at March 30, 2005 4:30 AM

I have a theory about one possible reason why testimony is so conflicting about Terri's responsiveness and why her responses may be so irregular, and would love anyone's input about whether it's actually possible/credible or not: http://www.xanga.com/item.aspx?user=purple_kangaroo_Angela&tab=weblogs&uid=231728184

It makes sense to me, but I'm no medical expert.

Angela

Posted by: purple_kangaroo_Angela at March 30, 2005 5:02 AM

Angela:

I used to be an Air Force Meteorologist. One thing I learned is that if you take two people and give them the exact same information, you will still get two different forecasts!

People see what they want to see, and they hear what they want to hear.

The article is very well written to explain that because Terri is slower than others, reactions to stimuli take great effort and may be painful. Consequently, she responds consciously to those stimuli which give her the greatest benefit/ pleasure.

I don't know anyone who responds to everything around them--we all filter things; Of course Terri filters them, also.

She knows what happened the night she collapsed (which is why michael is so afraid). She knows he is not her "loving" husband. She knows he has kept her in prison for 15 years. She probably even knows that he wants her dead.

Why would she ever respond to him or his cronies? Terri is a person with disabilities; she is not stupid. She is very intelligent; she doesn't waste any effort on michael, why should she?

Posted by: Tress at March 30, 2005 7:36 AM

Tress, imagine the stress Terry must be going through everytime she sets her eyes on michael, knowing what he did on the night she collapsed and knowing he is the one starving her now.

Does anyone know who will review this case now? Woudl it again be Greer?

Posted by: sujata at March 30, 2005 9:07 AM

I hope to God its not Greer! They have had absolutely no luck at all with him. Seems he made his mind up years ago and has stuck to it. So upsetting!

Posted by: So Saddened! at March 30, 2005 10:12 AM

sujata:

The full panel of 12 judges on the appeals court will consider it.

Although this doesn't sound too promising: "The appeals court granted permission for the filing without comment and without indicating whether it would actually consider the merits of the request. Ordinarily, a court contemplating actual review in a case involving imminent death would issue an order to prevent the death pending its decision."

Posted by: Vanessa at March 30, 2005 10:13 AM

HIt the phones! FL Senate in session!

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 30, 2005 10:18 AM

I am glad to hear some good news. He has made me glad O He has made me glad! Yippee! I pray that Jesus continues to sustain our favorite girl Terri.
About the video, I am still downloading it. My computer is sloooooooooow. We also have to remember that Michael and his attorney refuse to let people in to see her. They know what they will see if they go in. It would not be consistant with a PVS!

Posted by: LauraB at March 30, 2005 10:33 AM

Where did this video come from? This is amazing. This is exactly what Michael and his attorney don't want people seeing. She is so adorable! She even remembers things from her past it sounds like.

Posted by: LauraB at March 30, 2005 10:40 AM

People of faith :

PRAY !!

I have been earnestly praying for supernatural provision for Terri. Having seen healings and miracles, and seen them recorded also in Scripture I know it is NOT too hard for God to save Terri.

There are some excellent insights here :
http://www.dutchsheets.org/index2.html

Arguing with people will not help Terri. Getting on your knees most certainly will.

Dave

Posted by: Dave_MN at March 30, 2005 10:51 AM

Amen to that Dave!!!
Yes, let's not let down Terri with lack of faith, people of faith, please increase your faith level, nothing is impossible for God. I too have been praying for divine sustenance for Terri and she shall be made whole and rescued by God. I believe it 100%.

Posted by: sujata at March 30, 2005 11:37 AM

Okay, does anyone know where we are with this now? I have read all there is to read about the court considering the appeal-are they going to reinsert the tube? Has anyone heard anything? What about the legislature? Is the vote still taking place at 1:00 eastern?

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 30, 2005 11:39 AM

Did anyone see Terri's mom yesterday pleading to MS? After seeing that and MS will still not swallow his pride truely shows the evil he really is.

Posted by: delphinius at March 30, 2005 11:44 AM

'Life, all I know is that the FL Senate is in session now.

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 30, 2005 11:51 AM

Yes, everyone continue to PRAY, PRAY, PRAY!!! I am convinced that this is the reason Terri is alive right now. There have been saints in the past who, as a sign of their sanctity, have not eaten or drank anything in years with no ill effects. There is no reason God cannot do the same for Terri if the Body of Christ storms Heaven with prayer.

Posted by: VicarDave at March 30, 2005 11:55 AM

Dave, I havent prayed in years and ever since this has been a ongoing part of my life to try and save Terri through calling,e-mails and fax, I truely now believe in the power of prayer. Michael cannot fight all of us praying for Terri!

Posted by: delphinius at March 30, 2005 11:59 AM

During an announcement on CNN they said that there are 12 active judges and 6 senior judges in the 11th circut court of appeals. Apparently senior judges do not usually hear cases. Every legal person keeps saying that it is unlikely that they will hear the case but that in this case it is anyones guess.

My stomach is in knots. Maybe the fact that they have not come back immediately saying no, is a good thing for the case. I just can't stand the waiting!

Posted by: imdll at March 30, 2005 12:11 PM

alwayschooselife,
Where did you hear that the legislature is voting again at 1:00 pm? I didn't hear that they were voting again, though I have been hoping and praying.

Posted by: VicarDave at March 30, 2005 12:16 PM

I heard that Jesse Jackson yesterday had convinced two officials who has previously voted no to vote in favor of Terri which would change the florida legis. in Terri's favor. But I havent heard about when they would be voting.

Posted by: delphinius at March 30, 2005 12:19 PM

'Life, the 1:00 figure comes from a post by "Zerb" a few threads ago, quoting one of Sen. Evelyn Lynn's staffers.

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 30, 2005 12:38 PM

Sorry, that was in answer to VicarDave's question.

Welcome aboard, VicarDave! Where are you located?

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 30, 2005 12:40 PM

I called Senator Webster's office and was told no one who originally voted no had made a motion for a revote. It didn't sound to me like the Florida Senate would be in session later today. I wish I had found out better news with my phone call.

Posted by: LErin at March 30, 2005 12:42 PM

People of faith :

Hindrances to prayer :

Fixing your eyes on what is seen. Our God is the God of miracles, he has power beyond our wildest imaginations. I have personally witnessed healings in my own life and the lives of others as a result of prayer. It is NOT out of His ability.

The media would bombard us with obituaries (CBS yesterday), talk of autopsies, etc. That, quite frankly, is designed to discourage us. Don't let it! Fix your eyes on Jesus, and let HIM guide you in what to ask for.

Also, use the faith you have, exercise it, and at the same time, ask for more. Ask God for what you can believe Him for, then ask for an expansion of your faith.

Remember the parable of the unjust judge; he gave the widow relief because she persisted. We, however, have a JUST judge, one who loves Terri and shed His own blood for her. How much more will he give to those he loves than the unjust judge... Don't give up!!

Dave

Posted by: Dave_MN at March 30, 2005 12:51 PM

Mary in LA,
I am in Minnesota, but I'm not the same person as Dave_MN.

Posted by: VicarDave at March 30, 2005 12:52 PM

One more thing ... while praying yesterday, I felt in my spirit that a turning point had been reached ...

It may not be visible yet, but somehow we are at a point where the direction was about to change.

Posted by: Dave_MN at March 30, 2005 12:57 PM

I just called Sen Lynn office and was told that there will not be a revote today. (Although a lot of misinformation has come out of there)Maybe tomorrow-I am too stunned to comment on the stupidity of these people. I guess now our best hope for today is back to the courts.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 30, 2005 1:01 PM

This is interesting. Apparently the Second District Court of Appeals found that Judge Greer has been Terri's de facto "guardian ad litem" all along. This excerpt is from a site siding with Michael, Abstract Appeal:

Why didn’t the court appoint a guardian other than Terri’s husband to speak for her?

The trial judge could have utilized a guardian ad litem as a neutral party to speak for Terri, but in the end the trial judge did not do so. The Second District affirmed this decision and explained its rationale in this way:

"Under these circumstances, the two parties, as adversaries, present their evidence to the trial court. The trial court determines whether the evidence is sufficient to allow it to make the decision for the ward to discontinue life support. In this context, the trial court essentially serves as the ward's guardian. Although we do not rule out the occasional need for a guardian in this type of proceeding, a guardian ad litem would tend to duplicate the function of the judge, would add little of value to this process, and might cause the process to be influenced by hearsay or matters outside the record. Accordingly, we affirm the trial court's discretionary decision in this case to proceed without a guardian ad litem."

This part also sounds like it's nothing more than a snow job written in legalese: "a guardian ad litem would tend to duplicate the function of the judge, would add little of value to this process, and might cause the process to be influenced by hearsay or matters outside the record."

Posted by: fourth party at March 30, 2005 1:06 PM

Oh by the way I saw the Pope is on a feeding tube this morning. I guess he soon will not be worthy of life either. I am not trying to be cynical but I am soooooo angry right now. Ugh.... okay time to focus, time to pray.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 30, 2005 1:07 PM

'Life is correct: The FL Senate has recessed until tomorrow morning at 9:00 without re-voting on Sen. Webster's bill. This is according to staff members for Sen. Alexander, Sen. Lynn, and a few others I talked to in person.

1. Hit the phones, politely. I literally begged for the bill to be re-voted. I think at least some of the staffers are sympathetic to Terri's situation.
2. Pray hard for Terri to survive yet another night without food or water.
3. Pray hard that the courts will grant an emergency stay.
4. Don't let Jeb off the hook. (850) 488-4441.

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 30, 2005 1:13 PM

I don't really foresee any hurry on the part of the court. Reports have said there's no indication of any timetable. Keep praying, folks.

Posted by: Foug at March 30, 2005 1:13 PM

I just heard that Rev. Jessie Jackson is to meet with Gov. Jeb Bush within the next half hour. It is said that only one Florida legislator is all that is needed to convince to change their vote, if that can happen then an emergency session would be called.

Posted by: Caryn at March 30, 2005 1:30 PM

Thanks Caryn, sounds like a great place to focus our prayers.

Posted by: Dave_MN at March 30, 2005 1:35 PM

I just called the Governor's office. His line is free. So please everyone call!!

Posted by: sujata at March 30, 2005 1:36 PM

Commenting on 2 things, prayer and the video.

1. As for prayer, absolutely keep praying. Sunday (Easter) I put out on the internet for everyone to come togheter in prayer at the same time. I didn't get but only a few responses and beings it was Easter I am sure not many people were on the internet. So once again I am going to initiate it. TODAY at 6pm PST - 9pm EST (all other time zones adjut time accordingly), stop what ever you are doing and pray for Terri. Pray for God's devine intervention and that his will be done. I feel God's will is for Terri to live or she would have passed on by now. Rebuke all evil that surrounds Terri. Pray what's in your hearts. There is power in prayer and that power willbe magnified with all praying at once. Matthew 18:20
For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.”


2. I posted the link to the video on my blog. Here is a response I got; "Oh, SoCal! She was laughing! And her laughing occurred at the same time as that of others in the room! Unbelievable! How do we know that she didn't try to speak that day when her tube was removed! That is absolutely chilling when you think about it. Her siblings have said that she has cried since her tube was removed too, but Felos is painting a "happy death" picture for the world."

For me the video shows Terri understands whats going on around her, its just very hard to communicate and the message probably takes longer to get to her brain. My daughter who also suffers from brain damage has the vocabulary of a 4/5 year old and she even sometimes will stutter and get confused when so much information is going to her brain at once. Her neurologist even says thats why she can't get the words out sometimes.

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 30, 2005 1:40 PM

I finally got through on the fax line for Gov Bush-
So Cal Angel- I am in 6:00pm in Nevada. I will be at church I will get everyone around me to pray too.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 30, 2005 1:46 PM

Has anyone read the En Bac Petition?
http://theempirejournal.com/11CTA_EmergencyEnBancPetition.pdf

If the Court does not hear the case it won't be because the right arguements weren't made. I would like to say better late than never but dang this is late in the game!

Posted by: imdll at March 30, 2005 1:51 PM

News

Terri's father is supposed to be having a news conference right away. CNN is just waiting for him to come to the microphone in the next little while.

Posted by: imdll at March 30, 2005 1:54 PM

The Shindlers lined up a number of witnesses to speak at the news conference stating that Terri is awake, alert and her skin tone is good. The one lady, Sherri said that Terri was still trying to track the people with her eyes just as she had done the other day when she was in to visit her.

They all look very down. My heart breaks for these people.

Posted by: imdll at March 30, 2005 2:01 PM

SoCalAngel,
Bless you for not abandoning your daughter. I lived in Orange County for 13 yrs caring for my brain damaged husband. We are now in Florida. There is a non profit organization ,California Caregiver Resource Center that helps all caregivers for brain injury,alzheimers, stroke, etc, with resources, information,support groups, retreats, and respite. I thought would mention it just incase you didn't know about them. The CCRC was a life savior for me. Florida does not have any such program.

I called Gov. Bush and it was confirmed he is meeting with Rev. Jessie Jackson.

Posted by: Caryn at March 30, 2005 2:08 PM

Uhm, they are saying that Terri looks good-that is a God thing. It is also being repoted that the Florida Legislature has gone home for today-we knew that but that today at 11:00 the petition for Terri Shiavo expired and so it cannot be brought back up. Jesse is meeting with the president of the Legistlature right now.

Good news: If the 11th circuit court of appeals agrees to hear her case the feeding tube WILL BE reinserted immediately.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 30, 2005 2:08 PM

What the heck are they waiting for? Every extra minute is too long! I read the document that they have to study for the decision. It isn't rocket science. Either the arguements are valid or they aren't!

Posted by: imdll at March 30, 2005 2:13 PM

I was reading about how it might be too late if they reinsert her tube... if her kidneys are too far gone and don't function right and her body can't expel fluids she could essentially drown. I am terrified at the thought. Please God, keep her. Every second, every millisecond, counts so much.

Posted by: Foug at March 30, 2005 2:20 PM

So the Legislature was just going for appearances! They sat around arguing until time ran out on the petition. It appears to me that everybody is just going through the motions while they wait for Terri to die. That way they can say at least they tried!

Posted by: imdll at March 30, 2005 2:21 PM

It seems like whenever a decision takes so long, it always goes against the Schindlers. The long time seems to be used for writing the conclusions supporting the decision against Terri. The judges certainly know the urgency of a quick ruling.

I pray this is not so.

Posted by: LifeisPrecious at March 30, 2005 2:22 PM

socal, may be we could all get up on some yahoo chat or something like that so we could all get into one place (a chat room may be??) or may be we could try this chat http://thelife.com/interactive/chat.html, it is moderated, but doesnt require any registration

Posted by: sujata at March 30, 2005 2:32 PM

The above chat suggestion was for this evening's prayer only!!

Posted by: sujata at March 30, 2005 2:33 PM

So is this how this will work, the legislature is now in the process of voting, and if Jesse Jackson and the Gov. manage to get those 3 votes they need then they will go in and get Terri?

Posted by: delphinius at March 30, 2005 2:39 PM

Jeb and Jesse at a press conf http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050330/480/flsc10603301800

SO what did they say at the press conf? Did anyone listen?

Posted by: sujata at March 30, 2005 2:39 PM

There is always so much misdirected anger here. The Schindlers' lawyers missed the due date for filing the appeal by three days, yet still the appeals court agreed to consider the matter.
When the court takes some hours to reach a decision they're evil, but when the lawyers sit around and wait three days, that's alright. Somehow.

I for one am happy they are at least considering the matter again, although the fact that they didn't order the tube to be reinserted isn't promising.

Posted by: Vanessa at March 30, 2005 2:41 PM

Will they start with a IV first and then reintroduce the feeding tube?

Posted by: delphinius at March 30, 2005 2:43 PM

just read in yahoo news that jackson said no one is willing to change their word. Is this true?

Posted by: sujata at March 30, 2005 3:01 PM

just read in yahoo news that jackson said no one is willing to change their word. Is this true?

Posted by: sujata at March 30, 2005 3:02 PM

sorry, not word, vote.

Posted by: sujata at March 30, 2005 3:02 PM

sujata... I just checked it out, sounds good to me. Those who can make it there great but if not be sure to stop what ever you are doing and pray at 6pm PST. I will try to be there but if I am not know that I am praying where ever I am.

http://thelife.com/interactive/chat.html

Caryn; Thank you and thank you for the information. I could never abandon her, It gets very hard at times but God gives me the stregnth.

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 30, 2005 3:05 PM

I don't think we should hold our breath on the possibility of any vote being of any help. I think it was just for appearances sake so they didn't look like jerks for not looking at things one more time since Rev. Jackson was asking them to. This whole case seems to be big on appearances and not so much big on truth and fact.

Gov. Bush didn't say anything at the news conference that I saw today about him and Rev. Jackson. He just ducked away and said he had another news conference to go to. Entirely spineless comes to mind!

Posted by: imdll at March 30, 2005 3:11 PM

Vanessa,

Don't think for a minute that anyone here has not noticed that Gibbs missed the deadline. There are not many here who are terribly thrilled with his competence in arguing this case.

Posted by: imdll at March 30, 2005 3:15 PM

Vanessa, how did you interpret that I said judges were evil for taking time to come to a decision. I simply said that when the decision takes a long time, that decision usually results against the Schindlers.

I don't appreciate anyone putting words in my mouth.

Posted by: LifeisPrecious at March 30, 2005 3:20 PM

They just denied the appeal

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 30, 2005 3:22 PM

I was just getting ready to post that always.

Lord have mercy on us all.

Posted by: LifeisPrecious at March 30, 2005 3:24 PM

Where did you read/hear that? Is there still hope for the legislation?

Posted by: Sirena at March 30, 2005 3:25 PM

No matter what anyone thinks or says about the law and whatever else-this will have an impact beyond what any of us can foresee. This is what every pro-abortionist has been hoping for. Now they have their legal precident for everything from euthanasia to embrionic stem cell research. God Bless America. You all better hope and pray that you and your loved ones have the genetic appeal to be considered worthy of life in the future.

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 30, 2005 3:28 PM

I have lost all faith in the judicial system and in our Government..... I even feel like never voting again.....

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 30, 2005 3:33 PM

Keep praying; double your prayers! It seems that prayer for a miracle from God is all that Terri has now - it can happen; we need to have faith.

If a miracle is not God's will, we can at least pray her into eternity and pray that as God brought great good out of the worst event in human history (the betrayal, suffering and death of the Son of God), so we pray that Terri's betrayal, passion, and death can bring great good to the world as well. We can pray that eventually Michael Schiavo and his diabolical cohorts will be brought to justice as well.

It seems like a massive protest of hundreds of people which included medical personnel with proper equipment who all attempt to gain entry to the hospice at the same time is the only thing that can save Terri now.

Posted by: VicarDave at March 30, 2005 3:41 PM

I'm so heart broken!

Posted by: Caryn at March 30, 2005 3:43 PM

SoCalAngel - don't give up, especially don't give up your right to vote.

We are all so very angry about this, so sad and heartbroken.

But these people are supposingly our representatives. You must not let your anger and sadness stop you from further action. Laws can be changed and it is only when people express their opinions to state and federal representatives. Your vote is more important than ever now.

The power of the people that have joined in Terri's fight can be used to make sure something of this nature NEVER EVER occurs again.

Keep contacting representatives, vote for those who follow your beliefs, be active in your government.

I know it's hard to read this right now as we all are dealing with our feelings concerning this ruling. I think we need to deal with what we are feeling and then, NEVER FORGET WHAT HAS HAPPENED - NEVER!

Posted by: LifeisPrecious at March 30, 2005 3:44 PM

Everyone-the problem with the legislation seems to be that at 9:00 a.m. eastern time the deadline to revive that bill passed. Funny how we never heard about that before today. I am not sure where we stand now-I am not sure if it can be brought up on emergency-.

Vicar Dave-I know you were not being terribly serious but what would that last idea of yours take?

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 30, 2005 3:54 PM

Terri is alive!!!

People of faith don't give up. With faith, mountains can be moved, do we have the faith is the question.

Love that last idea of VicarDave

Posted by: sujata at March 30, 2005 3:55 PM

alwayschooselife,
I am not sure...I don't have experience in these matters, but Randall Terry would probably be a good starting point, and he is on the scene. Obviously, it would have to be a NON-VIOLENT, but courageous "mob" of several hundred people who attempt to gain entry from different angles at the same time, with a lot of medical personnel and equipment (because the S.S. police would manage to stop a lot of them).

Once they got in, they'd have to start a sit-in and block the doors and windows. Not sure how long it could last, but I bet it would last long enough to draw hundreds, or even thousands more people to the scene.

There would have to be a concerted effort not to do anything wrong. Illegal, yes, technically, but not wrong. Last I checked, trespassing is not wrong when it is to save someone's life.

It would take quite a bit of planning - that much is obvious.

Posted by: VicarDave at March 30, 2005 4:08 PM

Don't get me wrong. I have not given up faith in God, never. I know that God is going to do his will and his will might not be the same thing we want.

VicarDAve, I have had that thought as well. I would never act upon it or organize it but I almost wish soething like that would happen as long as no one got hurt.

I posted a question somewhere a few days ago but got no response. Here it is: Doesn't the FBI or CIA have some right. I mean if there is enough evidence that there is wrong doing not only with MS and his lawyer but if there is evidence to be looked at that maybe the judge has acted against the government, can't they step in and take Terri into protective custody?

(hoping I worded all that right)

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 30, 2005 4:18 PM

SoCalAngel,

To your last question, yes, I believe so. And the CDF in Florida could take her into protective custody as well...but they won't. I think people have lost the virtue of courage in this day and age.

I'm too far away to organize anything like that either, but for the people on the scene or within driving distance, I think that's the only realistic way anything could happen.

Posted by: VicarDave at March 30, 2005 4:24 PM

I guess now we see why it's important to get new judges in the federal judicial system. For a probate judge, one who probates wills, to be the one who rules on a person's life as though it were a piece of property and for the state and federal judges to uphold him is a travesty.

Posted by: Jeanette at March 30, 2005 5:14 PM

The Carter Center has been quiet. Why? They support "human rights". Jimmy Carter is a Christian! Where is his voice? Why is he silent?

I've tried to email them, but not even the courtesy of a response. "A voice crying in the wilderness" ???

Even Jesse Jackson has supported life for Terri!
But silence from President Cater!

Please email them and have them weigh in as friend or foe.

carterweb@emory.edu

If anyone has the email for former President Carter, please post it!

Posted by: Robert W. Smith MD at March 30, 2005 8:50 PM

Just to let you all know. Several of us met in a chat room and prayed for Terri. We were praying for about 45 minutes and could have went on longer but the moderator came in and hurried us up. It was amazing and you could feel God's presence. DaveMN was on fire!

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 30, 2005 9:55 PM

DaveMN... I am such a DORK and I am sorry. I have a chat room on our Yahoo group but didnt even think of it cuz we never use it.... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sermon_on_the_net/ if you are still around....

Posted by: SoCalAngel at March 30, 2005 10:02 PM

I went off line to go to church tonight. It is amazing to me how many christian people do not care or even really know about this issue. The churches have pretty much taken a "I don't want to get involved attitude" because they are afraid of the political fallout. It is unbelievable. Anyway Vicar Dave, you are right about Randall Terry-I am sure he has thought about it-

Posted by: alwayschooselife at March 31, 2005 12:31 AM