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March 23, 2005

Demonstrators beginning civil disobedience

Topics: News

Already one being arrested right now for "trespassing," trying to take water to the Hospice. A group of demonstrators are gathered to try to do this as a group...

Fox News has live coverage!

Posted by beth at March 23, 2005 11:37 AM


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Comments

God Bless them!

All it would take is one word of George or Jeb and she'd be in protective custody. Were there ever two murderous brothers as these?

Posted by: Rosalind at March 23, 2005 11:46 AM

I think the way they are putting Terri to death is so inhumane. Even animals get put to death in a better manor than the way they are withholding food and water from Terri. I never thought in this day and age something like this could happen. I feel for her family and loved ones.

Posted by: Connie at March 23, 2005 11:48 AM

God bless these courageous poeple!

Posted by: Sirena at March 23, 2005 11:48 AM

Why are you blaming the Bushes. They both have gone out of their way to help Terri. My feeling is that impeachment would be on the lips of every democrat should either of the Bushes do anything more to help Terri. Would you take that chance if you were in their place...I don't think so.

Posted by: imtoast at March 23, 2005 11:50 AM

Remember Pilate?

Posted by: sujata at March 23, 2005 11:51 AM

I sense that John is an obnoxious poster, capitalizing on a bad situation. Can comments like his be removed while this serious issue plays itself out?

Posted by: noisy ghost at March 23, 2005 11:52 AM

Has anyone contact the brothers Bush to accept Michael Schiavo's invitation for them to visit Terri? I'd like to see a local cop try to arrest the President of the United States!

May God raise up more protestors than there are police! Out prayers are with them.

Posted by: Joshua at March 23, 2005 11:52 AM

It would go a long way if Jeb showed up to see Terri, on the other hand whose to say that there isn't a sniper just waiting to pop him. I believe both brothers have done a tremendous job trying to save Terri.

Posted by: imtoast at March 23, 2005 11:54 AM

Let's stop pointing fingers people and blaming people... let's bombard them with phone calls and emails and if you can get to Florida and help, please please please do!

And whatever your faith -- PRAY!

Posted by: Sirena at March 23, 2005 11:54 AM

Arrest me for trying to give a thirsty woman some water. I'd hang my police record on my wall. I'd FRAME it.

Posted by: Jacqueline at March 23, 2005 11:55 AM

[John, it appears to me that you're changing your name/email address repeatedly. Sad old troll stunt. --The Managementâ„¢]

Posted by: John at March 23, 2005 11:55 AM

A good summary...
"Terri Schiavo Is Not a Vegetable"
http://www.catholicherald.com/bonacci/05mb/mb050331.htm

If you live in Florida, please sign...
http://www.petitiononline.com/chisana7/petition-sign.html?

Posted by: Ann Brown at March 23, 2005 11:56 AM

No matter the reasons, both brothers are trying to help Terri. If blame should be placed on anyone I would suggest it go on MS, felos and greer.

Posted by: imtoast at March 23, 2005 11:57 AM

I partially blame the Bushes, as well, for not taking this issue as serious as the Civil Rights battles of the 60's and calling out the National Guard.

I just don't want to debate or read jokes about the Iraq war on a site about Terri.

Posted by: noisy ghost at March 23, 2005 11:58 AM

IS there something we can do to push the florida DCF process along?

Posted by: why? at March 23, 2005 12:00 PM

Impeachment? Would the pro-death side really want the truth about this to come out on National TV with Congressional hearings?

Well, as I told Georgie Boy in an email..... Your legacy will be right up there with whoever started the killing of innocents in Germany....

Same for Jeb.

They have nothing to lose. Jeb's been Gov for 7 yrs... how many more does he have left? George is going to go off into the illegal alien infested sunset he promotes after this....

What's the harm?

Posted by: Rosalind at March 23, 2005 12:00 PM

Jacqueline -

Amen!

Posted by: Sirena at March 23, 2005 12:01 PM

This is not only murder, it's a sadistic murder taking place while the world watches the great and powerful United States of America go into action, using its full court authority against one of its own.

Posted by: chris K at March 23, 2005 12:01 PM

Rosalind,

I actually wrote to the President a few weeks ago telling him he had nothihng to lose my intervening... he's not up for re-election or anything...

Posted by: Sirena at March 23, 2005 12:02 PM

What kind of parent - protester or not - parades their 4 children in front of cameras and has them arrested? Including a 3 year old child! Be honest people! Think how bad this looks!

Posted by: Beth at March 23, 2005 12:03 PM

Sorry for the typo in the last comment. I meant "nothing" not "nothihng". ;-)

Posted by: Sirena at March 23, 2005 12:04 PM

A Father and three of his four children were just arrested for 'trespassing' on the Hospice grounds (with water for Terri).
The fourth child (age 3) was handed over to the mother who was standing by.

Posted by: Raquel at March 23, 2005 12:04 PM

Simon the troll is back...

Posted by: Sirena at March 23, 2005 12:05 PM

Once the Supreme Court holds up the state court decision, maybe then something will happen, like sending in the National Guard. For Terri's sake I hope that happens.

Posted by: imtoast at March 23, 2005 12:05 PM

John, you are wrong about what you said about Jeb trying to "put the poop back in the horse." The problem is that existing state laws have been VIOLATED in this case. As we're seeing more an more these days, some judges have been making up the law as they go. No, it's not just Greer, Tampa Federal & 11th C.C.A. It's happening in Illinios too - at the federal bankruptcy court.

Let us not forget that people are being stopped from helping Terri naturally. This is not all about a feeding tube.

Here is the Florida statutes being VIOLATED RIGHT NOW:

(2004 Florida Statutes)
Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 825
ABUSE, NEGLECT, AND EXPLOITATION OF ELDERLY PERSONS AND DISABLED ADULTS

825.102 Abuse, aggravated abuse, and neglect of an elderly person or disabled adult; penalties.--

(1) "Abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult" means:

(a) Intentional infliction of physical or psychological injury upon an elderly person or disabled adult;

(b) An intentional act that could reasonably be expected to result in physical or psychological injury to an elderly person or disabled adult; or

(c) Active encouragement of any person to commit an act that results or could reasonably be expected to result in physical or psychological injury to an elderly person or disabled adult.

A person who knowingly or willfully abuses an elderly person or disabled adult without causing great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement to the elderly person or disabled adult commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(2) "Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult" occurs when a person:

(a) Commits aggravated battery on an elderly person or disabled adult;

(b) Willfully tortures, maliciously punishes, or willfully and unlawfully cages, an elderly person or disabled adult; or

(c) Knowingly or willfully abuses an elderly person or disabled adult and in so doing causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement to the elderly person or disabled adult.

A person who commits aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3)(a) "Neglect of an elderly person or disabled adult" means:

1. A caregiver's failure or omission to provide an elderly person or disabled adult with the care, supervision, and services necessary to maintain the elderly person's or disabled adult's physical and mental health, including, but not limited to, food, nutrition, clothing, shelter, supervision, medicine, and medical services that a prudent person would consider essential for the well-being of the elderly person or disabled adult; or

2. A caregiver's failure to make a reasonable effort to protect an elderly person or disabled adult from abuse, neglect, or exploitation by another person.

Neglect of an elderly person or disabled adult may be based on repeated conduct or on a single incident or omission that results in, or could reasonably be expected to result in, serious physical or psychological injury, or a substantial risk of death, to an elderly person or disabled adult.

(b) A person who willfully or by culpable negligence neglects an elderly person or disabled adult and in so doing causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement to the elderly person or disabled adult commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c) A person who willfully or by culpable negligence neglects an elderly person or disabled adult without causing great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement to the elderly person or disabled adult commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

History.--s. 3, ch. 95-158; s. 2, ch. 96-322.

THANKS TO Raquel !!! Bless You!

Posted by: Richard Dean at March 23, 2005 12:06 PM

No Simon, people can disagree, but this is a place for people to support Terri - if you want to spew your rhetoric there are other places to do it... we are trying to save Terri, not argue with people who believe the courts and judges are never wrong...

Posted by: Sirena at March 23, 2005 12:09 PM

Does anyone live in Orlando 'cause i would like to go to Tampa tommorrow with my brain damaged husband but I can't do it alone?

Posted by: Caryn at March 23, 2005 12:10 PM

From the EXPERTS(what, did they try this out themselves?)

"It's as if the body has a protective mechanism at the end of life, such that loss of appetite and loss of thirst precede the dying process"

Ummmmm... that may be true if the person is terminally DYING --Before-- the deprivation of nutrition & hydration.

Posted by: Raquel at March 23, 2005 12:10 PM

Simon, Kos and DU have threads about Terri, why don't you go there and put your crap on their website. That's what they're there for.

Posted by: imtoast at March 23, 2005 12:11 PM

I NEED HELP MAKING AN ACTION ALERT FLYER!

Posted by: Jacqueline at March 23, 2005 12:13 PM

DALLAS VIGIL ORGANIZER NEEDS HELP MAKING FLYER

EMAIL me the basics. Act like you know nothing- what would you tell people that know nothing.

Help me, Please.

Posted by: Jacqueline at March 23, 2005 12:14 PM

Richard Dean;

Unfortunately that is just ONE section of the Florida Statutes which Judge Greer has violated.

How about:
Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 843
OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE

843.0855 Criminal actions under color of law or through use of simulated legal process.--

Chapter 777
PRINCIPAL; ACCESSORY; ATTEMPT; SOLICITATION; CONSPIRACY

Chapter 784
ASSAULT; BATTERY; CULPABLE NEGLIGENCE

Chapter 839
OFFENSES BY PUBLIC OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES

They are all relevant to Greer's illegal order.

Posted by: Raquel at March 23, 2005 12:15 PM

Wait. St. Pete FL can arrest a 5 year old for having a Temper Tantrum, but there's nothing anyone can do to get Mike and Greer for Terri's treatment? ESPECIALLY Jeb and George?

Why have AGs? Why have Health and Human Services? Why have an executive branch, if they're "not allowed" to execute?

They've done the bare minimum for Terri, trying to make sure (in their mind) the Republican base still votes....

I don't believe the base will. What's the difference, really, between the two sides? Sovereignty? Not with Bush's support of Law of the Sea Treaty and his Illegal Amnesty plan. Spending? Please. No difference. Iraq? What's the difference if our borders are like Swiss cheese so the next Bin Laden can come through "with dignity". Tax cuts? What good is a tax cut when you've got the other things listed.

This is my last straw with this party. Can't sell me on their virtues.....

Posted by: Rosalind at March 23, 2005 12:16 PM

Doesn't anyone realize that civil disobedience is not the way to go? All it does is backfire and aggravate the powers that be. Peaceful protest with enough people to make a statement is the only kind of protest that will work.

Posted by: Wendy at March 23, 2005 12:19 PM

Dear Imtoast,

I would take that action if I were president and Lord help the fools who tangled with my guards.

Go, Christian Soldiers!

Posted by: MARY at March 23, 2005 12:21 PM

I tried to email the Florida Attorney General last night regarding Violations of FL law by Greer. But guess what?? Email was returned undelivered (rejected for policy reasons) as per the following:

----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to agdns.oag.state.fl.us.:
>>> RCPT To:
... Service unavailable

Posted by: Argh... at March 23, 2005 12:22 PM

Thank god for this site and all the research everyone does here! Thank you all of you. I have sent e-mail after e-mail, phone call after phone call to how ever has room left in the mailbox. Mainly because of the vastness of the information I am getting from this site. Thank you for all your hard work


[Thank YOU, Adrienne! XOXO -The Managementâ„¢]

Posted by: adrienne at March 23, 2005 12:27 PM

I posted this suggestion as a tip to the terrisfight.org site:

I suggest requesting Gov. Bush and/or President Bush to act by exercising their Constitutional authority to DISREGARD enforcing the orders of the Courts. As I understand it, the Executive Branch has the option of checking & balancing the Judiciary, and Legislative, by refusing to actively enforce laws and orders. Gov and/or Pres Bush may order law enforcement authorities to NOT intervene (i.e. arrest) in preventing persons attempting to help Terri.

Posted by: Jon at March 23, 2005 12:29 PM

Too bad Michael wouldn't have invited Jeb and W to meet Terri when she was alert instead of waiting til she was weak from dehydration.

Posted by: Amy at March 23, 2005 12:30 PM

I've got to agree with those who say the Brother Bushes aren't doing enough - they say all the right things so that they cover their behinds, but won't take a stand and do something bold and daring.

Posted by: Betsy at March 23, 2005 12:30 PM

The Kid, on the off-chance that you aren't a troll, I say to you that Terri's case has a direct impact on health care for the elderly. If she is allowed to be killed, why shouldn't her case be used as a precedent to deny health care to elderly people altogether? After all, they're just drains on the economy, right? No longer working, drawing pensions, taking up health care resources that could be used on younger, more productive people... You see where this is going, don't you?

Terri is not brain-dead -- she's a disabled person. Disabled people deserve equal rights and equal protection under the law. To give them less is as discriminatory as "colored-only" restrooms and drinking fountains were in the South before Civil Rights. Disabled people know this.

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 23, 2005 12:31 PM

BTW, Barbara Weller, one of the attorneys for the Schindlers, was on Dennis Prager show at the beginning of the first hour. (9:00 PST where I am, don't know when his show is on elsewhere). She said that they are going back to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals for a hearing "en banc", that is, with a larger panel of judges. It was a three-judge panel that turned them down this morning -- two against, one dissenting. They are also preparing an appeal to the Supreme Court.

Tick... tick... tick...

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 23, 2005 12:34 PM

Rick alias TheKid3181, READ and HEED my post above before you post again:

The Kid, on the off-chance that you aren't a troll, I say to you that Terri's case has a direct impact on health care for the elderly. If she is allowed to be killed, why shouldn't her case be used as a precedent to deny health care to elderly people altogether? After all, they're just drains on the economy, right? No longer working, drawing pensions, taking up health care resources that could be used on younger, more productive people... You see where this is going, don't you?

Terri is not brain-dead -- she's a disabled person. Disabled people deserve equal rights and equal protection under the law. To give them less is as discriminatory as "colored-only" restrooms and drinking fountains were in the South before Civil Rights. Disabled people know this.

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 23, 2005 12:37 PM

Do terri's family have any more avenues open to them if the supreme court rules against them. I am not familiar with the court process in this country. What I find incomprehensible is the fact that this is being battled out whilst this poor woman is lying dying. Her feeding tube should be connected until this whole case can be retried and all evidence is looked at from the beginning and new medical tests made by independant sources neither pro life or death. What the hell are the judges looking at now. It seems pretty evident to me that something sinister is happening here, regarding her husband and the lack of care he has afforded terri e.g. monies for rehab being awarded and not being used for that reason. We only have his word and two of his immediate family that she would not want to live this way. Funny how no-one else heard her say this or rather convenient. If No Living Will was made by terri this statement by him should not stand, as by his actions it is not a reliable source. He would not be living with another woman if he truly loved terri as he says.
I praise terri's family for doing what they are doing. The only voice terri has right now are her family and the hundreds of people who are standing outside the hospice and writing about her on sites like this. TERRI CAN'T SPEAK RIGHT NOW BUT WE CAN.
WHY IS NO-ONE LISTENING. Its a travesty.

Posted by: natasha at March 23, 2005 12:38 PM

Looks to me, Rick, the difference in executions is INNOCENCE (unless guilty of an abusive husband is equal to ax murderer).

As for "not taking care of our own", seems to me Washington would handle national healthcare as well as govt has handled Terri's situation, and the Social Security "trust fund" (lmao)....only the average Joe would have LESS INFLUENCE than they have now... since they'd have even more of our pocketbooks and we'd have the piggy bank. No need to listen to us.

Posted by: Rosalind at March 23, 2005 12:40 PM

Jon Darien , you a a discusting veminous troll. We have a hospice you can waste away at for free.

Posted by: Caryn at March 23, 2005 12:42 PM

Meh. the kid/Rick's comment is obviously annoying and pointless to all of you too. What do you guys think, delete it?
No, I'm not feeling very charitable today, and bandwidth isn't cheap.

Posted by: Beth at March 23, 2005 12:43 PM

Keep calling and emailing people... and get to Florida if you can!!! (and if you are a person of faith - PRAY!!!!!!!!!)

Also, thanks to the wonderful webmaster(s)/webmistress(s) that have created this site. It's a marvelous place for up to date info and an endless source of contact information. God bless you all!!!

Posted by: Sirena at March 23, 2005 12:44 PM

Caryn, where's Jon Darien?

Posted by: Beth at March 23, 2005 12:44 PM

2000 years ago a man was killed for claiming He was divine. Today a lady is killed for claiming to be human..... Is there a parallel??

Posted by: John McDonell at March 23, 2005 12:44 PM

Kill it. He knows what he wrote. If he's not a troll, maybe he'll mend his manners next time and not double-post the same thing under different nics. Feel free to kill my self-quotation, too, if it would help.

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 23, 2005 12:45 PM

Thank YOU, Sirena, you've been a great commenter and supporter here! You're VERY much appreciated!

Posted by: Beth at March 23, 2005 12:45 PM

It does not matter if the democrats or anyone else would want to impeach Bush or Jeb!

The fact of the matter is that he has the power to save Terri's life, has the legal authority to do so (remember the senate has called her to come before them and her husband is starving her so she cannot), and it is the only MORAL thing to do.

If Bush and Jeb do not save this woman they are both partially guilty in her murder.

They have the ability to save her with a word, and it is the only moral and honorable choice they can make!

Character is NOT about making choices and decisions when they are easy, but when they are hard and could have very damaging effects on your life.

Yes, some may scream and yell at Bush or Jeb. But they and all of us could be PROUD that our leaders DID THE RIGHT THING!

Posted by: GeorgiaGuy at March 23, 2005 12:46 PM

Check this out!

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43447

Isn't it ironic that the doctor who Michael hired has been a featured speaker for the pro-euthanasia Hemlock Society?

Concidence? I think not!

Posted by: Sirena at March 23, 2005 12:47 PM

I can't say I'm a fan for either of the Bush brothers, or most of the family for that matter, but I can at least defend the lack of action taken by Jeb and George. While Jeb issued an executive order previously, that was overturned on the grounds that it violated the seperation of powers. The reason Jeb isn't, and probably won't try this again is that he knows it'll be found unconsitutional another time. Contrary to popular belief by many on this site, an executive order cannot override a case where judicial review has already occured, and where a decision has been found. If Jeb were to attempt to negate the judicial branches' findings, he would be inherently saying that the Legislature can convene over the Supreme Court...which goes directly against the Consitution and federalism. So really, it isn't that they can't issue an executive order, its that if they tried, it wouldn't work...as much as you'd like to think that these guys can magically wave a wand and overthrow all other rulings with some all-powerful order, that's really not the case, the rules are quite clear in such instances.

Posted by: jason at March 23, 2005 12:48 PM

Jon posted earlier about the e-mail he sent to Terri's fight and to Jeb/W Bush not to get involved.

Posted by: Caryn at March 23, 2005 12:50 PM

I have read on previous sites that if terri does die and I pray to God that she does not, then her husband has ordered an immediate cremation for her, without autopsy etc. Is this true and if it is it speaks volumes about the man. What is he trying to hide. This in itself should be grounds to have his interests as her guardian questioned Can this action be stopped if it is correct.

Posted by: Nicole at March 23, 2005 12:51 PM

Jesus is Divine, Terri is human. What's your real point?

Terri's sister on Glenn Beck's radio program this morning said she's hollowing out..like someone in the concentration camps....

God I want her out of pain... If we humans won't do it.... You do it for us....Don't let us torture her for her existence. 15 years of Sh** from us humans is enough (tears...).

Posted by: Rosalind at March 23, 2005 12:51 PM

From Ed, a guy I know who seems to know a lot about this sort of thing (I think he works for the feds):

"Actually, its the job of the U.S. Marshalls to do what you ask. I'm very surprised that they haven't stepped in. At least until she "violates" the subpoena by not showing up. Then they go after the person... Maybe that's the plan."


If so, it's a bad plan. Since the witness is in the process of being murdered, they need to act NOW.

Phil

Posted by: Phil Calvert at March 23, 2005 12:53 PM

Nicole, yes, it's true! Michael has ordered immediate cremation (which is against Catholic doctrine) and NO autopsy. He clearly has something to hide.

Rosalind, keep praying. I prayed most of the day yesterday. I feel somehow that the Hand of God will show itself today, one way or the other. This battle is about Terri, but it's grown bigger than Terri. It's now about all the disabled, the vulnerable, the weak, and how our society will treat them: as people, or as disposable property?

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 23, 2005 12:56 PM

I'm nowhere near Florida, unfortunately, but I would love to see everyone organized with a bottle of water apiece lined up in single file in solemn witness, just as those people in Gandhi lined up to be beaten, one at a time. Respectful, non-violent civil disobedience is certainly in order here.

Posted by: Robert N. G. at March 23, 2005 12:56 PM

Sorry Jon and Beth I read that post wrong. My bad! I'm feeding my husband and getting up and down from the computer. Very Sorry!

Posted by: Caryn at March 23, 2005 12:56 PM

Is is true what I heard? That an attorney spoke to Terri by her bedside, saying "If you could only tell us 'I want to live' this will be all over!" ... and Terri managed to say "I waaaa...", and that a deputy also heard the exclamation?

Posted by: Concerned at March 23, 2005 12:57 PM

Just a bit of vaque info regarding our legal system (for those who have no experience in this arena) - I am no expert, but I have enough experience to know that the uniniatiated have greater expectations of "justice" than is the actual case. (I used to be one of them).

A judge's job is generally not to do what is "right" or what "makes sense" in any particular case, but what is "legally correct" under the 'letter of the law'. (This is why the legislature should and does change/create law).

A judge is expected to make decisions in a case based on "precedent", that is, the decisions of previous judges in similar situations. They are allowed (too some extent) to interpret the law based on the differing circumstances presented. (However, they are NOT supposed to Create law - which sometimes happens).

An appeals court (unfortunately) is not reviewing a case to see if the original judge made the right decision or not, they are reviewing it to make sure that the "Legal Process" was followed (regardless of whether the outcome was flawed).

So - no matter how much some of the other judges may WANT to reverse Greer's decisions, they are bound by rules in how/what they can do... therefore an attorney has the burden of building a legal path, substantiated by precedent, that a new judge can follow to get the outcome that they want.

Posted by: Raquel at March 23, 2005 12:57 PM

This probably isn't the right place to put this comment but I just read the blog for Greta Van Sustern's column on Fox--one of her emails from a viewer said Michael's mother's obituary contained the name of his girlfriend, lover,mistress, common law (don't know what to call her) as next of kin instead of Terri. Now that is a kick!! He loves her, he's standing by her and he inserts his girlfriend's name as next of kin on his own mother's obituary? wish someone knew how to check that out.

Posted by: Barbara L. Russell at March 23, 2005 12:58 PM

No, Jason. Wrong.

Executive and judicial branches uphold legislation, which created by elected representatives of the people. Plenty of laws being broken in this case. If Michael doesn't act like a proper guardian, govt supposed to take guardianship over... just like they take cows away from abusive farmers.

To think that the judiciary creates and upholds its own laws , and there's nothing the other two branches can do about it..... might as well get rid of the two branches. Save alot of money that way, and get rid of pretense of democracy.

Posted by: Rosalind at March 23, 2005 12:59 PM

Caryn: I'm no troll, I posted a suggestion on how to HELP Terri. I did not appreciate your venomous attack, nor do I believe I deserved it whatsoever in the least regards.

Posted by: Jon at March 23, 2005 1:00 PM

Have any of you changed your opinion on food since this last Friday? My appetite is almost gone and I have to force myself to eat something so I don't feel faint. I'm looking at food in a whole new light now. I actually am grateful for the food I took for granted before...

Posted by: Sirena at March 23, 2005 1:01 PM

Responding to Mary regarding the legal recourse -

The standing order is for the tube to be removed. The opposing party must prove that there is a valid reason for this decision to be reviewed based on a violation of due process - not new evidence presented. That opportunity was given before. The courts have ruled thus far that - due process has been given and there is no reason for a new investigation. So the order must stand.

Basically, I think the courts are saying two things. 1 - you have presented this "evidence" in the past - charges of abuse, denying PVS - and we have already ruled. You have appealed and lost the appeal. We are not going to review the same facts.
2- you don't have new evidence. Why is an affadavit from a nurse in 2003 now coming out? If you had this information, it should have been presented before this.

This is my comment on the legal system - I am trying to be objective so don't call me a "troll" or question my motives. Our legal system works because of these systematic and logical processes. It built these in to avoid situations like these - where the pressure of a life/death situation - can cloud opinions and make for hasty and incorrect decisions. Think about it - the system does work. The outcome may not be what is desired right now. Both parties are using the system to protect their rights in the case.

Please - please - while I know this a difficult issue - remember that - we are lucky that we have these rights. And - that we should all learn from this situation - appoint a proxy, write a living will and advanced directives - so that our end of life experience will not be played on on FoxNews, Sean Hannity, blogs, and Larry King.

Posted by: Beth in Philly at March 23, 2005 1:02 PM

Jon,

Caryn already apologized.

Posted by: Sirena at March 23, 2005 1:02 PM

If Bush were King, he could simply order Terri fed. He's not. He's just the President, with very specifically delimited powers. He can't overrride the ruling of a federal court, nor can he tell a local sherrif not to arrest trespassers.


Michael will have a long and increasingly unhappy life. He will then spend eternity in hunger and thirst watching the wife he killed feast in the company of her Lord.

"Vengeance is mine," says the Lord. "I will repay."

Posted by: corrie at March 23, 2005 1:05 PM

From the writings of the founding fathers, it is understood that the Judiciary was meant to be the WEAKEST of the three branches of government, and provided ample checks to ensure that it stayed that way. Unfortunately the Legislative and Executive have not exercised the powers given to them to ensure this.

I hope this case will bring a reformation among the nation - in putting the Judiciary back where it belongs. On the bottom!

Posted by: Jon at March 23, 2005 1:08 PM


I strongly agree with noisy ghost about the President visiting with Terri. I am republican all the way and feel we have a great President. No matter what is happening to Terri right now and how each and every person that has agreed upon her starvation and death God has His hands in this because He is feeding her, Michael! God is feeding her with his love and He is of great power and giving her strength. We might not see it by the look on her face and her actions but He has His hands in this. Terri belongs to God. Not anyone but God. There are reasons for everything and Michael might be sitting back and everyone else that has agreed to such a cruel manor of death for Terri. You treat others the way you'd want to be treated and you reap what you sew. Don't worry family and friends of the Shindler's. God is protecting your precious innocent Terri and He is carrying her. My heart felt thoughts and prayers are with you.

Posted by: Melissa at March 23, 2005 1:08 PM

I am praying Jeb will get the courage to do it. His blessings for that act will be abundant.

Posted by: sujata at March 23, 2005 1:09 PM

10 people now arrested for trespassing (3 children, 7 adults).

Posted by: Raquel at March 23, 2005 1:10 PM

Cremation isn't against the policy of the Church. It is a highly unusual option, but as long as the ashes are stored in an urn and respected.....

It's the scattering of ashes that's against the Catholic Church.

That, as a lifelong Catholic, is my understanding.

Don't even get me started on the US Bishops role in all this.....

Posted by: Rosalind at March 23, 2005 1:11 PM

The court is not upholding the Federal Terri's law. De novo, my understanding, means totally new look at it.

The Congress and President don't just send some sort of Amicus Brief to the all-knowing Courts.

If there's nothing we can do about courts not upholding the law.... like someone said today... we're like Iran and run by judges...... I don't want to spread THAT around.

Posted by: Rosalind at March 23, 2005 1:14 PM

Truely, Truely ,Humbly Sorry Jon. Please forgive me. posts are moving fast and I care for my brain damaged husband so I'm getting up and down. I only saw disregard and help.

Posted by: Caryn at March 23, 2005 1:14 PM

Caryn,

God bless you for taking care of your husband...

Posted by: Sirena at March 23, 2005 1:17 PM

Caryn: Sorry, just saw the apology above. I appreciate it!

Rosalind: The Senate has appelate power over the Judiciary, even over the Surpreme Court. Unfortunately that power has never been used.

Posted by: Jon at March 23, 2005 1:19 PM

Sen. Gary Siplin says he is praying about it. Thank God for the Faithful.

Posted by: sujata at March 23, 2005 1:19 PM

Justice Kennedy is Catholic. He knows what to do. Whether he'll do it.......

Posted by: Rosalind at March 23, 2005 1:25 PM

Girlfriend owned insurance company. Insurance

http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?a1=DETFIL&n1=P01000004292&n2=NAMFWD&n3=0000&n4=N&r1=&r2=&r3=&r4=JERGERCENTONZE&r5=

Posted by: sujata at March 23, 2005 1:30 PM

Michael Schiavo's doctor that examined Terri has malpractice suits

http://members.aol.com/wbflegal/terriwhy.html

Posted by: sujata at March 23, 2005 1:32 PM

more info on Terri

http://members.aol.com/wbflegal/page15.html

Posted by: sujata at March 23, 2005 1:32 PM

Talk to you later people. Gotta go chase a young one...

Posted by: Rosalind at March 23, 2005 1:37 PM

1. Rosalind, care to supply any actual evidence to support your post about Legislative authority. Sorry, but I'm hesitant to accept your personal opinion as fact.

2. Jon, I'm amazed that our founding father's thought that way. I mean, I had no idea you knew better than what was written in the Federalist Papers. I'm astounded...you must be some kind of time traveller to know how the founding fathers viewed the Judicial branch! Fact of the matter is, no power was meant to have lee-way over another, they had to coexist, not dominate. I'm sure you're fully aware of checks and balances, as well as judges as life-appointees...its meant to preserve impartiality. What we have here are judges who are actually not being progressive, they're following what is clearly written involving spousal priveledge, as well as the appeals process. See, if the judges were to do what you were saying would be right, they'd actually be progressive judges! All they're doing is following the powers given to them by the Consitution, as well as those expressed during Marshall's time.

3. I find it funny how frequently people post about how Greer, Michael, Felos, and others are going to be "JUDGED". You provide little stories about them being seen by the "GREAT JUDGE", and how they'll be punished...its really interesting. I know it probably makes you feel better, but trying to guess what God does doesn't appear so "righteous".

Posted by: jason at March 23, 2005 1:43 PM

Has there ever been a ruling that Terri cannot have an emema? The colon aborbs water.

It may be a legal out for the legislature - or the hospice - for an emergency manuever.

Posted by: Baillie at March 23, 2005 1:49 PM

Jason, let's think for a minute about the history of this country in its earliest origins as a unified government. Let's not talk theory or Federalist papers or whatever: let's look at the actual history of our government, to see where its authority lies.

The revolutionary organization that led the rebellion against the British was called the Continental Congress. People from the several states who came together freely to form a democratic republic.

Therefore the Congress is the most fundamental institution and authority in American government.

The Declaration of Independence, our founding document, is an ACT OF CONGRESS. Its first words are

"IN CONGRESS July 4, 1776"

the all caps is in the original.

After defeating the British, the Continental Congress met again to form a Constitution, which created the executive and judiciary branches.

Got that? The executive and judiciary are just creatures of the Congress. All their power derives from the Congress, representatives of the people.

Congress is the supreme governing institution of our land. The representatives of a free people, governing ourselves.

The Constitution nowhere says that it is the task of the courts to compare acts of Congress to the Constitution and determine their validity. It says the courts are to "interpret the laws." It says nothing about invalidating or cancelling the laws. That power is given to the executive, with his veto power. The Constitution contains no judicial veto power. "Judicial review" of the will of the people is repugnant to democratic republicanism.

We've all heard about Marbury v. Madison. Judicial usurpation has been accepted for 200 years because the judges have no guns and we probably always figured if they commanded anything really bad they wouldn't be able to force us to it. But the religion of judicial supremacy, alien to our Constitution, has really taken over the land. That doesn't make it right. Most people these days are undereducated and have little discernment in these matters. Everybody who's talking about how Jeb "can't" issue an executive order because of "legal" principles which give power to the judiciary doesn't understand what a democratic republic is. What you are really saying there is that the governor is no governor and the president is no president. They are figureheads, possessing no valid authority. They, like the rest of us, have to beg the judges, who are our TRUE governors, for permission to save the lives of the innocent according to divine and natural law.

I call bullshit on that.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 23, 2005 2:04 PM

Can we just all calm down a minute? As stated before, the judiciary was formed - to function on the outskirts of the "popular electorate" - to rule on the constitutionality of the orders of the Congress and other elected officials. THE SYSTEM WORKS PEOPLE.

If you don't think it works, consider this -
If we were in a different situation and the feeding tube was in, and MS was going to Jeb & George & Congress to have it pulled out - what would you be saying? Of course, the courts have ruled that they had no power.

Which proves the value of having this system of checks and balances.

Posted by: Beth in Philly at March 23, 2005 2:14 PM

This is not about govt. vs. citizen

This is about

spouse who has moved on from the role of spouse vs. parents who are still parents and want the best for the daughter

Posted by: sujata at March 23, 2005 2:30 PM

No Beth, re-read what I wrote. Study some American history.

And I'm a hell of a lot calmer than I actually SHOULD be, concerning the murder that is taking place while I sit here trying to educate people who apparently slept through grade school and get all their democratic theory from cable news shows.

Your question about what if the tables were turned is pointless because the fact that it is the representatives of the people who want to preserve her life and the judidical tyrants who want her dead is NOT A COINCIDENCE.

Killing people is what tyrants do.

I'm not sure what else I can say to people who don't know their history and believe preservation of the procedural status quo trumps all considerations of substantial justice for living men and women.

Except to repeat the facts. There is no "Constitutional review" of the laws by the judiciary actually written in the Constitution. Try reading the actual text of the Constitution sometime.

The courts are to interpret the laws. Interpreting the laws means doing what judges have done since the dawn of civilization: applying the laws, AS THEY STAND, to the details of particular cases.

I challenge you to find in the Constitution where it says that the task of the judiciary is to determine whether laws conform to the Constitution and strike the laws down if they don't. Not only will you not find that power, the power of striking down laws rests elsewhere: in the veto power of the executive branch. The Supreme Court usurped this authority with Marbury v. Madison in 1803. Sadly they were not resisted. Finally after 200 years people are starting to wake up and realize that we cannot allow ourselves to be ruled by tyrants while our innocent fellow citizens are sacrificed to the Moloch of spuriously 'correct' legal procedure.

I think one big part of the misconception is actually the name "Supreme Court." It just means the supreme court...among courts. It doesn't mean supreme over the rest of the government and nation.

Did you ever hear of a man named Dred Scott? Oh wait, he wasn't a man. Just like Terri isn't aware of what's being done to her.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 23, 2005 2:34 PM

No - it is about a spouse that is established as a guardian and is presumed to know his wife's wishes vs. parents who do not neccessarily agree with those wishes.

So the lesson is to write your wishes down. And now - much to my dismay - that is challenged as the case up here in Philadelphia shows.

Posted by: Beth in Philly at March 23, 2005 2:36 PM

Governor Bush cannot overrule a court order.

But a governor, at his discretion alone, can refuse to enforce a court order.

Most importantly, he is the only one that has the authority to enforce both the law, and court decisions.

He is not a King, but for the purpose of saving life from immediate destruction by external or internal sources, he may resort to any or all of the following (this emergency power is also used by police, fire, and rescue)

All the police power of the State is in his hands.

He is the only one who has the entire resources of the State at his command.

Which includes the conscription of all finances and all manpower that are in the entire State.

And the authority to immediately arrest those that interfere with a saving of life emergency.

Posted by: Richard at March 23, 2005 2:57 PM

Great post Richard.

One thing we seem to have in this country is that if procedures are being performed in the name of the government, they are immune from moral evil. So we forbid the executive to punish moral crimes that happen "on the clock" at people's jobs as judges or whatever.

But we're all equal human beings at the end of the day. That's why "just following orders" or "this is the way things are done in our country" won't get us off the hook with God.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 23, 2005 3:35 PM

To all who have been arrested at this death camp for trying to give even a single drop of water to Terri:

Now is the time for the rest of us to line up in a bucket brigade for Terri.

Now is the time to douse the fire of her dehydration.

Posted by: Richard at March 23, 2005 3:41 PM

I am new.

Do I have to put something in the URL: box?

Posted by: Richard at March 24, 2005 1:44 PM